Ep 266. - Judaism Is Not Zionism | Rabbi Elhanan Beck
This week on The Thinking Muslim, we have a wonderful and gentle soul, Rabbi Beck, who speaks candidly about Judaism, Zionism, and the Palestinian cause. He debunks the Israeli narrative on both theology and politics.
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Transcript - This is an AI generated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation
Introduction
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Why are you against the state of Israel? Where is today the most danger place for a Jew to live? Is in the state of Israel. Tens of thousands of Jewish families has gone out
0:10
since 1948. They didn't want to leave under the Israeli occupation there. One of the hols
0:16
justifications is the Muslims wants to kill all the Jews. The Palestinians even don't want to expel Jews from there. How people can be so blind just open their eyes? This
0:26
is a false Zionist propaganda. They use it to justify themselves to have their own state.
0:32
The problem didn't start on the 7th October. It started 1948. This week on the thinking Muslim,
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we have a wonderful gentle soul, Rabbi Beck, who talks Judaism, Zionism, and the Palestinian cause.
0:44
He debunks the Israeli narrative about theology and politics. [Music] Rabbi Beck, um, I'm really,
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um, happy to have you with us today. Uh welcome to the thinking Muslim. Thank you. Thank you. Well,
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it's lovely to have you with us, Rabbi Beck. And today we want to talk about uh Judaism, Zionism,
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uh the supposed conflict between Muslims and Jews, uh how Israel fits into uh Judaism or at least the
1:15
philosophy of the ideology of Zionism or what it stands for. But I suppose I want to start at
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a very basic level, Rabbi Beck. I mean, I I'm a Muslim and you're Jewish and according to Donald
1:26
Trump, uh, we've been at war with one another for centuries. Uh, is that really true? Like,
Animosity between Jews and Muslims?
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have there has there been intense animosity between Muslims and Jews for a very long time?
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Look, I give you an example of me myself. I born in Palestine. Uh, we gone out of the Palestine
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uh in 1970. uh my whole family. It's not only my family. I mean tens of thousands of Jewish
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families has gone out since 1948. They didn't want to leave in under the Israeli occupation
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there. Uh even here in London in my area I live here now in Statford Hill nearly 40 years. There
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are the last 10 years maybe 100 families gone out of Israel. They didn't want to leave there and uh
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but I really born in Palestine. I'm already there for seven generations. Really? And uh my mother,
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she's in the '9s. God should give her a long and healthy life. But she told me she remember we
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used to live very good with the Palestinian neighbors. They have no problem each other.
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She told me she remember they used to dance for the weddings each other from that time. I
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mean from that times I know many Palestinian songs from the coming to the weddings each
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other. She told me she remember babysitting the Palestinian children and the other way to bring
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the children to Palestinian neighbors. She remember we lived in harmony and peace and
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everybody knows a bit of history knows that we have a golden history in all Muslim countries
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much better than the rest of the world. I mean I didn't want to specify people who persecute us but
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everybody reads the history and knows that we were persecuted in Europe and many places. However,
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not in the Muslim countries. The Muslim countries they give us very good hospitality
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and this is very well known. This is a false Zionist propaganda. What they try to they use
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it like to justify themselves to have their own state. One of the justific false justifications
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is that the Muslims wants to kill all the Jews. They want to throw all the Jews into the sea.
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and even you are against Zionism but you have to side with us if not you will be killed blah blah
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blah it's completely completely false I mean when you just I say for everybody they say for
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the marches here in London they see anti-semitic mares or something like that I say for everybody
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how people can be so blind just open their eyes and look the two fact don't believe me look look
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today In all Muslim countries like Morocco, Tunis, Algeria, Yemen, Turkey, all the Muslim countries,
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Jews live peacefully there. They have no problem. And I tell you more than that, even in Iran, Iran,
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the greatest enemy of Israel. Still, they're leaving 35,000 Jews. They don't know what
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anti-semitism is. They never experienced that. I I myself I never been in Iran but my colleagues a
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few rabbis there was they visited Iran many times and uh they told me that they find their beautiful
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Jewish life they find their Jewish synagogues uh schools high schools Jewish businesses they told
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me even there is in Iran a Jewish hospital funded by the government completely really and in Iran
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again the greatest enemy of Israel. To get a MP in Iran, you need a half million of uh voters. Jewish
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people are 35,000 and have their own MP. And uh I mean for for three months ago under the missiles
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between Iran and Israel, Iran didn't concentrate the Jews. They protect their own Jewish citizens
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in the country. Jews feel free in Iran. Even under the missiles, Jews feeling free in Iran,
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they didn't feel any danger because the the the hatred today have nothing to do with Judaism, with
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anti-semitism. This is anti- occupation, anti- genocide, have nothing to do with Judaism at all.
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And even in Palestine, both parties Fatar and Hamas declared openly they have no problem with
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Jews. They have a problem with the occupiers. Um um I tell you just something what's happened
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uh nearly two years ago. Uh we were invited to a uh conference in Turkey and in the middle of the
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conference Isma appears there. Wow. I believe you know who is it's not legal to say who is him. Oh
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he the legal he the the political leader. He was fortunately he was the legal the the political
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leader of Hamas. Yes. And he appeared to the conference in the middle of the conference come
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up. He saw our rabbis. He told them to come up. And when they come up he embraced them and he say
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Jewish people like this will be welcome in our future Palestine. We have no problem with Jews.
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Yes, we have a problem with occupation. We have a problem with the genocide. But people wants to
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leave. Jewish people wants to leave peacefully under Palestinian government. We have no problem
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with them. I must tell you that the same thing I had experienced for 15 years ago or 20 years or
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sorry, I didn't remember exactly when Yasova the leader of the Palestinians died. Uh he
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passed away. I didn't remember for how many years ago it was. Uh I gone up here to the
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to the embassy to Palestinian embassy to pass my condolence. By this chance I asked for the
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Palestinian ambassador that I'm a Palestinian Jew and I want to ask a Palestinian passport.
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Yeah, he told me unfortunately we are not issuing passports but when we will do one of the famous
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passports will be for you. Wow. It will be a honor for us to issue a passport for a Jewish
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rabbi to show this is not a religious conflict. The conflict is about occupation having nothing to
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do with the religion. Jewish people wants to leave peacefully. They will be welcome in Palestine.
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So again we come to the point this is completely false to say that the Muslims hating Jews the from
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the history and from the today's day you can see that in daily life you don't see in the Muslim
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world any hatred against Jews. The problem here is the occupation and the genocide. But the Zionist
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try to twist it out and transform this anti- occupation into anti-semitism to try to justify
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themselves. We work hard at least to unmask this and to make clear for the world it's having got
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nothing to do with anti-semitism at all. Yeah. I going many times to here in London to to
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uh rallies. Yes. And the police stops me on the way. Where are you going? Oh, where do you going?
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I told them I going to the to the rally there. Oh, watch out. You they will kill you. Yeah. Again,
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I'm thankful for the police for for the goodwill to protect me. But I tell them,
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don't you don't have to protect me. Just look after me. I show you a miracle. Yes. I go in among
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hundreds of thousands of Muslim people. I'm still alive. Yeah. Nobody touch me. Because the the
Kemi Badenoch on protests
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leader of the Conservative party, Kem Bedo, just said a few days ago that uh these demonstrations
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are festivals of hatred. I mean, how do you respond to that? You know look I don't like to
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uh comment about uh our leaders our government about that but I can say clearly that it's a
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big mistake have nothing to do with with hatred against Jews. This is about the occupation and
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just imagine what will happen if Spain will occupy England. It will be the same thing. Yes. I mean,
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nobody likes occupiers. Everybody fights against occupiers. But this is not old traditional English
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hatred through Spanish people. If people will say this is old, no, the English people fighting
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the Spanish for 2,000 years. Yes, he is completely wrong. He tried to mislead people on the side. So,
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this is a problem of occupation. If Spanish coming into England, of course, they will hate about this
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occupation and that's all when they will give up the occupation. They have no problem with the
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Spanish people. I mean the same thing is about this. This is very I will do it I will say it
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on this nice way. This is a very big mistake to label them with anti-semitism. In many parts of
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into hope. Can I ask you about I mean recently for those um outside of the UK would have known and of
Manchester Synagogue
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course we know it in the UK there was a an attack on a synagogue in Manchester a horrible attack
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um and uh two people two Jewish people died uh in a religious festival. Um the media have
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s suggested that uh this is part of a broader uh antagonism towards the Jewish community. Um like
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how do you process and understand that attack? Have you been in contact with the Jewish community
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in Manchester for example? Like how how are you assessing the reasons behind that? Yeah. Look
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um everybody everybody's heart is hurting when instant people get died and no difference from
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which religion from which background white and black Japanese Chinese no different everybody have
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the right to live on this world freely and to have and I mean enjoy the world's life and the families
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and it's very hurtful to hear that if somebody died but Again we have to make it clear that the
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written people who is we have to accuse about this attack this is again don't be confused this attack
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didn't was anti-semitic attack haven't got nothing against Jews this is against the genocide this
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was again I'm not justifying any bloodshed and of course not for innocent people 100% everybody it's
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hurting when I hear that I mean it's hurting for everybody I mean this is crazy what's going on in
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today's day however but we have to understand the root of the problem if not we will aim to false
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places we will not fix the right things we have to understand what the problem here is the problem is
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not should didn't aim a synagogue as a synagogue. He aimed it as a Zionist center. Maybe he was
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mistaken. He didn't understand the difference between Judaism and Zionism. And he understand
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that if he want to attack Zionist, then he have to go to a synagogue. Unfortunately, people are
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not aware enough of the difference between Judaism and Zionism. But again, they didn't take away the
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plain fact. What was the aim of this attack? Was the occupation in Palestine, not anti-Semitic,
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not against Judaism. And again, I'm not justifying that. Yes. But we have to bring out the point into
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understand the Zionist say we will save Jewish people from anti-semitism. They say we Jews need
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the end of the day a safe heaven in we have to save Jewish people from anti-semitism. In fact,
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just open the eyes and you will see exactly the opposite. Just open the eyes again. Don't
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believe me. Just open the eyes and look at the two facts. Where is today the most danger place for a
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Jew to live in the whole world from Australia to Argentina to China to Alaska going the whole world
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you will come to one point. This is the middle of the world. This is the state of Israel. Again,
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I'm speaking about Jews as danger for Jews to live, not Palestinians, for Jews. I say every
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time I live here in England nearly 40 years, we don't see soldiers on the streets. We don't
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see tanks. When you never see a saw a tank in the street, even weapon, even the police don't carry
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weapons here. This means a safe country in Israel. Every small child see in daily life soldiers,
16:56
weapons with tanks with all of these kind of things. This is safe. This is the most danger
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place for a Jew, not to speak for Palestinian, for a Jew to leave. So they didn't bring any safness
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for Jewish people. They only endangered Jews. And when you're speaking about anti-semitism,
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they're only racing anti-semitism all over the world. And this is really the background why
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it's happened that what's happened unfortunately in Manchester and again it is not a justification
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just to bring out the point and to point the right things. I mean as I heard that Netanyahu blame our
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prime minister that they didn't do enough for the Jews here in in in in in England. I'm sorry. What
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I can't tell him. I'm sorry. You made deity and you tried to put the rubbish on other people. I'm
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sorry. You you Natanya, he brings up anti-semitism all over the world. And when something happened,
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he put it on the head of other people. It's completely not true. They say we need to make
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more police on the streets. Okay. Of course, we will thankful if the police will protect us. It's
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very nice and very good of course but this has not gone to the root of the problem. The root of
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the problem is that we have to distinguish between Jews, Judaism and Zionism. Everybody should know
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that Jews don't take responsibility for what the Zion is doing for the killing in the genocide,
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what they're doing in Gaza. Jewish people are peaceful people. Jewish people awaits for the
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peaceful dismantlement of the state of Israel in full and this is what we're waiting for.
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Not only here I I can say even the Jewish people in Palestine uh there are hundreds of thousands of
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Jewish people looks like me this type of people you can call them Jews oric Jews ultra orthodox
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Jews no difference the name people looks like me there are I know there is people looks like me
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what they are the settlers what they are very they are really ms and they're ignitioning the fire
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every time However, what are hundreds of thousand thousands of Jewish people in Israel what they
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are boycotting the state as much as they can. They don't take any benefits and they don't vote don't
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take they don't participate the votes don't save in the army. Our rabbis said for our ys better go
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to prison and don't go to the army. And really the army sent out in the last year 54,000 invitations
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and they they came maybe two 300. No way. That's all. All of the others they cannot go out of the
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country because the police will catch them to prison and they even when they're driving they
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are scared the police stop them they arrest them straight away. So 54,000 youngsters where they
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refuse to go to the army and they're really in a big prison. They cannot go go out and they cannot
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walk on official places and something like that. It's a really bad situation there. What they're
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coming out you cannot see that in the mainstream media. Unfortunately the mainstream media is in
20:34
the hands of the Zionist strongly in under the Zionist influence. But in the social media,
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you can see our yachts get beaten by the police very strongly and they're holding signs. We we
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want to die and not to serve in this m army. This is in Israel. Again, I didn't say this is
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a few hundreds of thousands. Yeah. What they are there. But outside the state of Israel,
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I can say people looks like me. Yeah, this type of people most of them are strongly against the
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state of Israel and the rest of them up to 95% are at least non-sionist. Why? Why are you against the
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state of Israel? Yes, I will come to this point in one minute. Yes. Just um people are against
Why Jews against Israel?
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the state of Israel. I I I mean again most of them are against the state of Israel up to 95% really
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and non-zionist again 60% is against and the rest up to 95 are non-Zionist non-zionist means it's
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not a part of the life they haven't got nothing they don't feel attached to them I mean they have
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their education their businesses their studies the the the everything life and I put it on this
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way when the state of Israel will come to an end. They will not share that day on that. It's not a part of their life. There are small percentage for the Zionist. When you come in my area,
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I believe you was in my area a few times. Yes. Go all they're leaving tens of thousands of Jews
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living there. Yeah. Side by side. By the way, about thousands of thousands of Muslim people and
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we live here peacefully there. Synagogue side by side with mosques. And I can say all the mini cap
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divers in our area, 4 500 of them, all of them are Muslims. And we sending the small children of two,
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three years in the play um uh play schools and in the in the schools with the Muslim drivers.
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I never heard even one single incident. We're leaving very peacefully and when the mosque
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on Ques Road wants to build it up, the Jewish councils help them to get a permission. And the
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same thing with the Jewish synagogues wants to build up the Muslim councils help them. We have
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a a very good life there. This really example because the Muslims in our area knows very well
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that we are against the state of Israel and they have no problem. We living as very good neighbors.
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Uh I must tell you I mean the Jewish mentality and the Muslim mentality are very close. They are more
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shy people more they are not you know I don't know how to call it they are they they're leaving very
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good together and if you walk to Stanford yes this is two three miles square two three miles
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there you won't see there even one single Israeli flag in the whole area you will not see nothing
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Palestinian flags you will see many of them but even not one single is there any flag in the whole
23:50
area. Now I come to the point to understand really why we are against the state of Israel. This is
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very important to for people to understand when we will understand we will understand much deeper
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what's going on here. I will have to start from the beginning and uh take your time. Yes. Yes.
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I will try to explain it and I will try to make it short but I will I have to have to understand
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what is that Judaism and what is anism. Judaism is the old religion of three and a half thousand
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years ago when God gave the Torah on the mount si for the Jewish people and the Torah this is the
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only thing what unites Judaism. Jews are not united by a state, not united by a race, not
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united by by anything. The the the only thing what unites Jewish people is the Torah. They believe in
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the Torah and keeping the Torah. This is not my words. This is one of our greatest rabbi said,
25:05
"Nation is a nation only by the Torah. If you can be Jewish, you are white, you are a black,
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of course you have to convert to become Jewish. But anybody can convert to become Jewish,
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a black, a white, from China, from Japan, from anywhere in the world, people can convert to Judaism is the same Jew as me. from the other side any Jew who don't
25:34
keep the Jewish religion he don't believe in the Jewish belief he's not considered as a Jew and
25:43
I didn't want to offend anyone I didn't want to offend the people call themselves secular Jews
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but this is not not my words this is the toy law I didn't make the Tory law and I cannot change
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it my best will I mean this is a law of the Torah this my monities. I don't know if you heard about
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him. This is one of our greatest leaders for about 900 years ago, thousand years ago. And uh
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he put the Tan principles of the Jewish religion. I mean, he didn't come up with that. He just make
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it clear from the Torah clear the principles and the ending up. I give you the reference of that
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for the people who understand my language. This is in Sanhedrin per the end of Mishna is of and the
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memon say that uh everybody is not clear in one of these dating principles he's not considered as
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a Jew and again I I'm not here to offend anyone I just bringing out the Jewish law and I cannot
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change it I mean I didn't want to change it I mean it's very good for me the Jewish law but this is the Jewish law and finish right so again what united Jewish people the Torah that's all if
27:05
somebody gone away from the to is not considered as a Jew you as a Muslim can understand that much
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better I mean what means what makes a person for a Muslim his belief if somebody will say I'm a
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Muslim but I'm not a believer what he will tell him you are not a Muslim he will say how can you
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say that my father again father uh 20 generations Muslims you will ask him again you are a believer
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or not he will say no I'm sorry you are not a Muslim at all if somebody conveyes to Islam in the
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same Muslim as you I mean so you can understand this that Islam is a religion have nothing to do
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if you have a state or you haven't got a state you live here in England not in a Muslim state
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you are the same Muslim as the Muslim Muslims in Iraq and in Pakistan. I don't know. I mean,
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you are the same Muslim as them, but they have the Muslim state. I don't know. I'm sorry.
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I'm not sure exactly in a Muslim religion, but I understand that the same thing is Judaism. Judaism
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is a religion. You keep the religion, you are a Jew. You don't keep the religion, you are not a Jew. This this is this is what unites and this is what Judaism stands for.
28:26
Nothing else. Not a state. You don't need to have a state and anything. Zionism on the other hand is
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a new movement of about 130 140 years ago. The founder of Zionist Herzel he was a nonbeliever
28:45
from Vienna from Austria. He didn't believe in God. He don't believe in God, not in the Torah.
28:51
Yeah. I mean, he doesn't keep the Torah. He was open with that. Even for his own son, he didn't
28:59
make a circumcision. A circumcision is the last thing. Even sec Jews, if they believe something,
29:05
this is Yamipu. Yam Kipu is the day what happened to Manchester. They say one day a year,
29:11
they're keeping Yam Kipu and they're keeping circumcision. is the last two things what people
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even psychologist keeping but he didn't and he was proud of that he said that openly I'm not
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a believer I don't believe in God I don't believe in nothing he have a different look on Judaism he
29:30
say what's going on here what unites Judaism as a nation the Torah they're not such a thing as a
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Torah they're not such a thing as a god they're not such a thing at all so What what will unite
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us? The only thing what you find that we have to create our own state and the state will unite us.
29:54
So you can understand that the idea of Zionism is emptying out from Judaism the whole holiness the
30:03
belief take out God from them everything fill it in with a national movement. Have a state,
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have a army, have a language, blah blah blah. you want to be a Jew, you have to speak Hebrew,
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you have to save in the army at least send money to Israel and blah blah blah something like that.
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So that means emptying out Judaism from the whole religion filling the up materialistic national
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achievement. Now you can understand a bit more. I give you again example in Islam if somebody will
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occupy your land your land throw you out of the land what's happened now in Palestine they will
30:45
be really your enemy but if somebody will take the religion of Islam emptying out of all the belief
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and fill it in with empty materialistic aspects yes and he will succeed and he will uproot 95%
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of Muslims to his new religion what he will call Islam if for any reason he will have the power he
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will be much much more your enemy much deeper than he robber away your land for sure yeah the land is
31:26
a land for you for me I mean as long we living here 70 80 90 100 years is long long life yeah
31:33
that's all But if he emptying out the religion, he take away your children, he take away your
31:39
grandchildren from you and he up them away from the religion. And this is much much stronger
31:47
enemy. This is really what the Zion has done for the Jews. Today are in the world 18 million Jews
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only two of them are observant. The rest of 16 the Zionist succeed to uproot them from God to uproot
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them from the religion. They call themselves Jews. But according to the Jewish religion,
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they are not Jews. As I told you from my monities, according to Jewish religion, Jews are only people
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who believe in God in keeping the Torah. Yeah. But this is really what the Zionist doing to the
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Jewish people. There are greater much greater enemy as they took away land that took away our
32:30
religion that took away millions of our people to the false ideas up them away from God. They killed
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them on the world forever. For next world from from this world they killed 16 million Jews really
32:47
what they religious people believers in God and they kill them away and they put them for for for
32:55
for atheist and I want to come to one deeper point to understand that better. Yeah. You will often
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hear Netanyahu on the media to say they're waving the the flag of the promised land. The promised
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land. Promised land. God promised a land for the Jewish people is our land. Blah blah blah blah.
33:22
It's true that God promised a land for the Jews. However, when you look in the Torah, it is conditionally. It's written the Torah 40 times that the land is only
33:34
in the condition if we keep a high level of life. If not, it's written the Torah 40 times
33:42
and they will be exiled of the land. Mean you keep the faith. Yes. But not only the
Jews and holy land
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faith. God away from us. This a holy land. You have to live there on a higher level.
33:57
And if you don't keep this higher level, even when you leave all over the world, you will not get punished because you don't have to be this level. But if you want to live
34:08
in the high in the holy land, you have to be a higher level. And when Jews failed, God sent the
34:16
prophets to you can see that in Jeremiah, Isla that God sent the prophets for Jewish people to
34:25
repent and to come back to the higher level. And when we failed, God sent us in exile. As you can
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see at the end of the book of Jeremiah, the same God who promised the land, the same God took it
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away from us and bes with three oaths not to go back by force, not to rebel against the nations
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and not to go up in mass to the holy land. This is in the Torah. No, this is in the Talmud. in
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the Talmud in Keid Alf it's page 111 and uh um it was swung us with three oats not to go out of the
35:08
exile by force just waiting for the Messiah maybe we will come back later to the point of Messiah
35:16
I want just to point out now before we gone away from that don't make a mistake Messiah will not be
35:25
a Messiah will will not kill innocent men, woman, children. Messiah will will not come even with
35:34
any physical power. He will come with spiritual power in the heart of people. I will explain it
35:40
later. Yeah. But uh now I want to come back to the point God was sworn us to stay in exile and
35:47
not to rebel against the nations and not to go out of exile by force. waiting just waiting for
35:54
the Messiah. Zionism, they are non-believers. They don't believe in God. They don't believe in the
36:00
Torah. They even don't believe in the promise of the land. This is so hypocritically coming with a
36:08
promised land. Who promised that? God. You don't believe in God. Theo was here in London. I didn't
36:15
remember the last time a few years ago I visit. He go to eat a non kosher restaurant just to he
36:22
have enough kosher restaurants here but he want to demonstrate I don't believe in god he want to
36:28
demonstrate that so who promis an end from you you don't believe in god you don't believe in the so hypocritically just to take out some ves of the Torah to justify themselves falsely to justify
36:41
themselves and you don't believe in the same god what you're speaking in his name however But I
36:48
come back to the point that the same God who gives us the land, he took away the land from us. But the Zionist don't believe in in God and they don't believe in the promise of the land. So
36:58
they have a different look and they say, "Oh, how long we will be in exile?" They have no reason why
37:04
we are in exile. We have to organize ourselves and go back. That's all. So this is really the
37:15
the the the the background of Zionism. So you can understand that Jewish people are believers
37:24
in God. When God sent us in exile, we are not rebelling against him. We staying in exile. He
37:30
was sworn us to stay in exile. We don't we don't rebel. It's I give every time the example if a
37:36
father save our child look you are bad I have to punish you stay in the corner for 10 minutes he
37:43
coming out what means that rebellion the same thing where God sent us into exile we are not
37:48
rebelling we are not going out of the corner we are waiting in the corner as good children we're
37:53
waiting for God we're waiting for the Messiah but the Zionist don't believe in God don't believe in the Messiah and they say why we should live here why we should stay in exile we have to
38:04
organize ourselves. If we will not help ourselves, nobody will help us. This is the Zionist idea. The
38:10
Zionist the background of Zionism. So you can understand Judaism is build it up on loyalty of
38:19
God. Believing in God, trust in God. It's not only Judaism, every religion, the first step of the
38:26
religion is believe in God. Believing don't means when it's light. When it's light, everybody can
38:33
see that. You don't have to believe it. Believing means when it's dark, when we are in exile,
38:38
we are still believing in God. We waiting for God. We're waiting for the Messiah. Zionism is built up
38:45
and don't believe in God. Don't trust in God. Go out of the corner. Don't wait for him. There's no
38:52
God to wait for him. There no Messiah to wait for him. Just organize himself yourself. So you can
38:58
understand that Judaism, Zionism is diametrically opposed each other. This is believing in God and
39:05
this is don't believe in God. Yes. So this is really the background why Judaism is against
39:12
Zionism. Yeah. Just give me one minute more. Yeah. This all what I told you now is even designed is
39:20
built up the country in a free country by they didn't take over the Palestinian people just a
39:27
free country especially when they're doing that on the head of other people by killing them by over
39:33
away the land from the in the Torah it's written don't kill don't steal is the ten commandments
39:38
is exactly what the Zion is doing the Zionist are rebelling against God also with that for
39:46
rubber away the land from the Palestinian people and they kill so many Palestinians. I mean,
39:55
we see the genocide what's going on in Gaza. Hopefully, it will come to an end just now what
40:02
what's we in the last 25 months. Yes, it's terrible. We didn't. So again here in this
40:12
country we are not allowed to label anybody with names give a name and this is illegal so I don't
40:19
give anybody with any name but I can say that this videos what we see what's going on in Gaza today
40:28
we didn't saw the last 80 years the last time we saw that was in Poland under the Nazis and again
40:35
I don't label anybody with any name but I can say is the fact everybody can see that just try
40:42
to find just look in the videos in last 80 years you don't see something like that what's going on
40:49
in Gaza it's unbelievable that people what they have gone through a holocaust how they can do the
40:56
same thing for other people this is this is really really really crazy and of course this doubles and
41:04
triples the crime of Zionism much more So this is really why Jewish people are so strongly against
Israeli politicians and Judaism
41:14
the state of Israel. Yeah. Thank you so much. That's a really detailed answer. Now of course
41:19
Netanyahu uh Smottridge Ben Gabir and others they would use religion to justify their actions and
41:28
um there are many uh who would argue in Israel that Judaism justifies what's happened in Gaza.
41:36
Um, can you find as a rabbi any justification from the text, from your religious text to to condone
41:45
uh this amount of killing and amount of suffering that's taken place over the last two years?
41:52
100% that not in the Jewish religion it's written
42:01
if you save one person's life it's like you're saving the whole life the whole world and of
42:09
course one of the first thing of the Jewish teaching is to watch on the life of other
42:15
people and not of course not to kill and even not to steal anyone's land of Of course, we are not
42:22
allowed to do that. The Zionist claim on the state of Israel is completely wrongly. They say, "Okay,
42:31
fine. We're not allowed to kill, but you may stay for your own uh you may defend yourself." Yes,
42:38
you may, if somebody wants to kill you, you may to defend yourself. And you often hear that from Taya that Israel have the right to defend defend themselves. However, my question to them is who
42:50
gives you the right to be there on first place? It's not your land. You cannot come and take over
42:55
someone's house and then say I have the right to defend myself. I mean, please give back the land.
43:02
Give me the give back the house for the right owner and then he have no problem with you. He didn't want to kill you. The same thing. Give back the land for the Palestinians. The Palestinians
43:11
don't want to kill you. They want back the land. That's all. The Palestinians even don't want to
43:18
expel Jews from the from the land. The Jews can live in Palestine like we live in Morocco and
43:24
Tunis and Algeria and in Iran. The Palestinians have no problem with Jews. They are problem
43:29
with the occupation and with the occupiers. Give back the land for the Palestinians and they have
43:34
no problem with Jews. We can leave as peaceful neighbors. All of the land. From your perspective,
Post zionist Palestine
43:41
what should a a postzionism Israel or post Zionism Palestine look like? As I explained you that the
43:51
background of the from the Jewish perspective, what's why we are not allowed to have the
43:58
state? Because God sent us into exile. Jews have today no right to rule even one inch of a land.
44:06
And even the Palestinians will come to us and say, "I give you the land. Forget with a good will. We
44:13
are not allowed to have it. We are not allowed to run any country. We have to stay in exile between
44:18
all the nations." So according to Judaism, Jews have no right to the land in the whole land from
44:25
the river to the sea should be going should go back to the Palestinians in full 100%. Right.
44:33
So you believe basically that uh Palestine should return to the pre948 borders 100%. We hope I mean
44:42
that's what's happened now in the politic it's still not end but we hope in these days it will
44:48
come an end to this genocide in Gaza. Of course it's everybody's happy that at least a genocide
44:57
there's a stop. Yeah in the genocide but this is not the end of the way. I mean the problem didn't
45:02
start on the 7th October and it will not end on the 12th of October. I mean it started 1948 and
45:11
it will end when it will be go back to 1948. Yeah. And again as I told you from as my mother told me
45:19
what she remembers she saw with with her own eyes. Palestinians have no problem with Jews as Jews. We
45:26
can go back to the 1948 and the Palestinians will accept Jewish people. They will have no
45:35
problem with Jewish people if they want to leave there as good neighbors, as Palestinians citizens
45:44
in haven't got any aspirations to take over the land. Yeah. As I told you earlier from Ismaia,
45:52
but the same thing we had a few times with um the leader of Fat um Mahmud Abbas. Mahmud Abbas. Yes,
46:04
we met him many times. Yeah. And he declared it very much very many times. Even Afa declared
46:10
that. Yeah. We have no problem with Jews living in Palestine. We have a problem with the occupation.
46:15
If they have no aspirations to take over the land, they will be welcome as Palestinian Jews to live
46:22
in Palestine. Do you know anything about I talked about anti-semitism here and and you you talked
Anti-Semitism increasing?
46:28
about you know the anti-semit is it a problem like do you feel that uh hatred for Jewish people
46:35
is increasing and and there is a definition of anti-terrorism anti anti-semitism which
46:42
um uh you may know about the IH the IR definition which in a sense conflates it brings together
46:50
uh anti-semitism is the same as anti- Zionism or anti-Israelism uh like just explain that to me
46:59
like what's your thinking about we we spoke about really this is this is a a big confusion it's
47:06
completely wrong it's a big mistake to confuse anti-anism with anti-semitism ism not only a
47:14
mistake and not only a confusion this is really very danger to mix up these two concepts and this
47:22
confusion leads to this attack what's happened the last kipu for a few days ago or one week ago
47:30
this confusion leads to that god forbid it should not don't happen again and again people should
47:37
realize and understand that Jewish people again when I speaking about Jewish people, speaking
47:44
people like me, this type of Jews, people ultra orthodox Jews, these people are almost of them
47:54
are against the state of Israel. Again, I told you most of them are strongly against other are
48:00
non-Zionist. They have no connection with Zionist. And I must tell you even with within the secular
48:06
Jewish movements there are also a large amount of against the state of Israel I don't know exactly
48:12
what's happened there what's was the status of the this so-called synagogue in Manchester but
48:20
when you go to the rallies you will hear that I can say that more than half of the speakers
48:27
are Jewish names they call them up the speaker to come up to speak you will hear Jewish names
48:34
you from that you can see there's large large large Jewish movements within the secular Jewish
48:42
people where they are strongly opposing the state of Israel and of course we have to make
48:47
a distinguishment between these two mixing that up together anti-ionism with anti-semitism is very
48:56
danger what's happened for 10 days ago in keeper in Manchester we hope it will not happen Yeah,
Protests on Sabbath
49:03
we're meeting at the moment on a Friday and of course sunset is coming soon and the Sabbath is is is coming soon. So I need to I need to let you go sometime soon. Uh we have some time. It's but
49:14
I still need to let you go sometime soon. But on on Saturday when we have the protests that
49:20
still remains a Sabbath I think until sunset. So u sometimes these demonstrations are at Victoria
49:25
or you know central London. Uh that's a little distance from uh uh how how do you how Yes. On
49:31
Saturday we are not allowed to travel by car. We don't we are not allowed to touch any electrical
49:37
device to operate. I mean we may use electric but we are not allowed to operate it. And uh so
49:45
because of that we are not using any transport um um uh any public transport or any car. Yeah.
49:54
uh even we may use the light because we don't use the energy especially of the light if we
50:01
are here or we are not here but when we're using transport we're using more petrol when we're using
50:07
public transport by electricity you're using more electricity with your weight so we're not allowed
50:13
to use the the the So how do you how do you reach we're walking we're walking yes from Stanford to
50:22
Victoria Oh yeah, it's uh quite 3 hours from Stanford to the to um um White Hole Downing
50:32
Street. It's about 2 hours to the Israeli embassy. Sometimes it's three and a half hours. But we walk
50:39
down, we feel that very we feel it's strongly this our obligation to to bring out the message.
50:48
Really one of our reasons is for that to save Jewish people from incidents like that what's
50:57
happened in Manchester. We understand that with our deeds people say we are endangering Jews. It's
51:03
exactly the opposite. We are saving Jews with our actions what we going out and show for the world
51:11
that this is not a fight between religion. This haven't got nothing to do with the religion. Jews
51:17
and Muslims can live together and leave together and we can continue to live together in harmony
51:24
and peace. I mean constantly very often I going in among hundreds of thousands of Muslim people
51:31
and everybody welcomes me and it's it's more than that I must tell you this is I coming very often
51:40
to Muslims uh uh conferences or mosques or or interviews of Muslims the hospitality of Muslims
51:53
uh it's unbelievable Every day, every time they offer me eating, drinking and I see that from
52:00
the hat. Yes. It's not like everybody say with a mouth. Yeah. Okay. I give you. No. People wants
52:07
to help other people. You come to me as a guest. I give you, I bring you. I see that every time.
52:14
I see that so many times. I just was um in the city. Yes. So when I come up Hussein and I was
52:25
confused in the place where to go and there was a few Muslims and uh there was some anger because
52:33
of the situation in Gaza but they saw the free Palestine and I say oh it's the first time in
52:40
my life I see that and they come to me and they try to help me. I couldn't find a place and they
52:46
helped me out to Google it and to find it and call the friends in the end to find the place and they
52:52
helped me to go there. I see that every time Muslim people are so helpful people. Of course,
52:59
everybody hates occupier. Everybody hates people making a genocide. Again I'm not here to justify
53:07
any bloodshed any genocide any but I bring out the mentality of Muslims are very very friendly in
53:16
especially to other Jews and we with our actions we're bringing out this point and I think this is
53:22
very important point according to safe Jewish people really not this is the reason why we're
53:30
coming out we're coming out to show our support for the Palestinians What people would say, oh you
53:37
are traitors against Jews. We are not traitors against Jews. We are traitors against Israel,
53:43
against the Zionist. Yes, we are not traitors. We are not recognize them and we are waiting for the
53:50
full dismantlement of this state of Israel. But uh not we are not traitors of Jews. We are saving
53:56
Jews. Even this is not the reason why we coming out. But the outcome of that is saving Jewish
54:04
people. The the Muslims understand that Jews cannot take accountable for what's happened in
54:11
Palestine and in in Gaza. And Jewish people, the real Jewish people awaits for the full
54:18
dismantlement of the state of Israel. We are not supporting a two-state solution at all or the full
54:24
dismantlement of the state of Israel. Thank you so much. And I think you've restored in in many
The Messiah
54:29
ways our faith in humanity when we see you at the at the demonstrations. And I must say uh you walk
54:35
two or three hours sometimes to these protests. And sometimes I find it difficult to get my fellow Muslims to come on by car or by train. So I think your inspiration needs to be carried into some
54:46
of our communities. It seems to me. Yeah. We're walking one way and then be walking back. Walking
54:51
back. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for what you do. Yes. I want to add a few more points
54:56
please. We told you the point of Messiah. Oh yes. Uh I have to make it very clear because people
55:03
asking this uh what the meaning of Messiah. Yeah. You you ever believe in messiah what will happen
55:12
with the holy land and Messiah will take over the holy land and he will kill the Palestinians.
55:18
So again the difference between Messiah and in Nataya is only a matter of time. he doing now
55:25
and I will do it in 10 years. I mean we have to make it clear that I want to add another thing
55:34
also. If I had a question I had another question please people get confused about the al axa mosque
55:42
in our belie in the temple on which place it's going to be built and what's going to be with
55:47
the mosque and what's going blah blah blah blah be demolished. Yes. Yeah. Something like that. We have to understand to understand what Judaism stands for. It's not something what you can Google
55:58
it on the internet. You have to look in the real books of the prophets of the Jewish prophets. Jews
56:07
have 24 books. You have to read it there exactly to understand and then they can asking questions.
56:15
Messiah the concept of Messiah Messiah will not come with any physical power in our descriptions.
56:24
Messiah is description of Messiah is that means a poor man coming on a white donkey. We don't know
56:33
what it means because today are not donkeys. Yeah, they have cars. This is like many prophecies what
56:39
we don't understand till it will happen. Messiah himself will not be will do will not do nothing.
56:48
He will only be a prophet from the almighty. He will bring down spiritual in much he will come
56:55
with a spiritual power. He will bring the spirit in my heart in your heart in the heart of all the
57:00
people of the world and turn the heart to God to serve all of us the same God in harmony and peace.
57:10
All of us will serve the same God in harmony, in peace. We with the Palestinians will not
57:17
be on two sides of the fence. We will be on the same side of the fence. We saying in our prayers
57:31
to serve the same God in one in one organization in one and and we say
57:40
in in Psalms in Psalms you have very I give you one example in chapter 97
57:50
when God will be king when God will reveal his kingdom on the world to Messiah all the world will
57:56
be happy everybody will be happy and serve the same God in harmony in peace. The holy land will
58:04
be the holy land for all of us to serve there the same God. We in the Palestinians and you and you
58:13
and everybody on the wall. This is our belief in Messiah. Messiah will not come with physical power
58:21
at all. Everything what will be done, it will be done by God himself. Messiah will only return
58:29
people to God. still people asking and the same thing I want to finish about the the the temple
58:38
mount. Yes. Um um the same thing if you want to understand what's going to happen there you have
58:47
to look in our scriptures and our scriptures in Shia and show you how it's written there that we
58:53
believe in a third temple it's coming down from the heaven from fire and we will save there in
59:00
God we will save there we will save in the god we can understand it no we don't understand it
59:07
let's wait and see yeah something what God will do himself. I believe that everybody will accept
59:14
it. At that time you will not have to believe in God. You will see with your eyes everything.
59:22
Today is the world of believing but at that time we will not have to believe. We will see every
59:28
time everything God will come down on the world and everybody will see the truth. Everybody will
59:35
return to him because they will see the truth. And the same thing will be with the temple mount. We
59:41
don't understand what's going to happen. We don't know. We cannot go in into a house of fire to
59:47
serve God. We don't understand that when it will happen. Then we will understand that and then we will see. Everybody will accept what God will do. Now I will come to not to one point to that
59:59
still yeah people asking okay I understand fine in which way they going to serve God at that time of
1:00:07
course Jewish Jews believe in the Jewish way the Muslims believe in the Muslim way the Christian
1:00:12
believe in the Christian way so again there is something what we can fight each other and kill each other blah blah blah blah blah I have to make clear the belief has never been a problem.
1:00:27
I give you an example. You are a Muslim. Can you sit in a cafe shop together as a by a cup
1:00:35
of tea with a Christian friend and you share the belief with him? You think what you believe in the
1:00:41
Messiah what's going to happen and he say what he believe. You're not hating each other. Yeah.
1:00:48
The hating start when somebody wants to force. If nobody forcing you believe what you want,
1:00:54
he believe what he wants. Yeah. Let's wait and see. Right. When God will come down, everybody
1:01:00
will see them. Everybody will accept it. Finish. There's not a reason why to act. The belief has
1:01:08
never been a reason why to ask each other. Let's wait and see. I tell you a nice story. I mentioned
1:01:16
about my monies. The Ramba. He was a doctor but I didn't remember Sultan Salahadin. I think I
1:01:26
didn't remember the name exactly. Yes. He was the personal doctor of him. Yeah. And the Sultan asked
1:01:34
him once, "Look, you are my doctor. My life is in your hands. How can I trust you? You have a
1:01:40
believe in a messiah. The Messiah will come. You believe he will be the king. I'm here the king.
1:01:47
So what's going to be here? He say, "My dear Sultan, the Messiah will arrive. If you will
1:01:58
not be the first one who will took down your crown and put it on his head, this is not the Messiah."
1:02:05
Because a Messiah will come, everybody will agree to him. If you will not agree to him, this is a
1:02:12
sign that he is not the right Messiah, the false messiah. And that's what I told you before. When
1:02:19
Messiah will come, everybody will agree to him. God, everybody will see God. Everybody will not
1:02:26
use violence. Occupation. Yes. Yes. Right. And now I will come to the final thing what usually
1:02:33
people asking what is the solution? What's in the solution? We don't see an end to this bloodshed
1:02:47
again. I'm not a politician and nobody asked me for the solution. I didn't but it's a good
1:02:55
question. No, I mean the politicians in the world don't come to me what the solution.
1:03:02
So I didn't have I didn't need to give you a solution because I just bringing
1:03:08
out what is according to Judaism. The state of Israel is not justified according to Judaism.
1:03:15
They have they say we have the right to defend ourselves. They have no right. They have no right to have Palestine on a fast hand. They say we have to save Jews. They
1:03:25
don't saving Jews. They just endanger Jews. So I just bring out the two facts on the table. I
1:03:35
didn't have to give a solution and I'm not a politician to give a solution. However,
1:03:42
I'm a Jewish rabbi and I can just say what is written in the Torah. In the Torah, it's written in the references numbers 14 verse 41.
1:03:56
Prophet Moses say for Jewish people, a rebellion against God cannot be succeed as long as the state
1:04:03
of Israel is a rebellion against Almighty. As I explain you, Almighty command us to stay in
1:04:09
exile and not to rebel against him, not to grab any country on the wall. And the state of Israel
1:04:16
is a rebellion against the Almighty. They will not succeed. Today is a world of non-believers. Yes,
1:04:25
I know. But I'm a Jewish rabbi and I'm a believer and I'm by me it's clear that this is a toy but
1:04:36
every believer it's clear that the existence of God is the to tell you that I looking really crazy
1:04:44
that people don't think so just when people thinking how your life how works your your
1:04:51
eyes your ears the whole system the uh immune system of a person. How people can understand
1:04:59
that that clever machine what is in the eyes the strongest computers cannot repeat it. This small
1:05:06
mind what a person have the cleverest computer cannot cannot do that in this small mind have
1:05:15
the small creature but they are so small like the corona you can't see them and they have legs they
1:05:21
have hands they have a mouth they're eating they have the whole system is so small you can't see
1:05:27
them this is things what it's impossible if human beings believe the technology will come up million
1:05:35
times clever more than today. They cannot come up up to so cleverness what all these atheists
1:05:43
have. They have a few questions. They don't understand how God runs the world. And this
1:05:50
leads them to atheism. Now there they understand everything. When they they don't believe in God,
1:05:57
they have million more questions. How your eyes walking? They are not answer these questions. I
1:06:03
looking them. I looking atheist people really crazy. They don't wants to look. They're just
1:06:09
closing the eyes. They don't want to look the plain truth. Anyway, I can just say in behalf
1:06:18
of the Jewish religion, in behalf of the Torah, in the Torah, it's written that the state of Israel
1:06:24
will come to an end. I'm sure that now is day that the state of Israel will come to an end.
1:06:31
We hope and pray to our peaceful and nobody looks for bloodshed. But that will come to an
1:06:37
end. Zionism brings that didn't save Jews anything. They only bring bloodshed after
1:06:44
bloodshed. Really our rabbi said it beforehand. We have one of our greatest rabbis is called
1:06:52
the he was for about 100 years ago before the state of Israel but after Zionism. And
1:07:00
uh he said that if Zionism will become a reality the state of Israel this will be rivers of blood
1:07:08
in that what we see today with our eyes that there are rivers of blood in there and no end to that
1:07:16
and the the the Zionist think they will shut down the Palestinians. They will kill them the
1:07:22
first generation second that's all. next three generations if you want to see a Palestinian
1:07:27
person you have to go to the museum really again I don't label people but this the same thing what
1:07:33
the Nazis say for Jewish people if you will want if you want to see a Jew you will have to go to the museum again the Zionist but they not succeeded Palestinians 1948 was maybe 1 million
1:07:49
Palestinians today there are 10 what's going to be in 10 years what's going to in 20 years. And look,
1:07:56
just here in the streets, we have the big rallies. Hundreds of thousands of people every second
1:08:03
or third week on the streets. Tell me even any issue on the world, national or international,
1:08:12
no difference, any issue on the world, what have so much attention as the issue of Palestine. So
1:08:20
many people coming out constantly and you see only in London was in the rest of the world
1:08:25
in many countries people coming out hundreds of thousands together there are millions but
1:08:32
people they are not Palestinians they're coming out in support of Palestinians so the movement
1:08:38
just getting bigger and bigger really I say every time this is my message to our government and to
1:08:47
the government the United States They're supporting blindly the state of Israel.
1:08:57
I can understand maybe Jews gone to a holocaust and they want to help Jews in okay and they wants
1:09:05
to just forgive to give for Jews a country. Maybe they have a good intention but they are
1:09:12
completely completely completely mistaken. State of Israel is not a help for Jewish people. This
Israel unsafe for Jews
1:09:21
only a danger Jews in the state of Israel is the most unsafe place on the world for Jews
1:09:28
and in the whole world. Beside of that, I mean, if Jews got to a holocaust, why the Palestinians
1:09:35
should pay the bill for that? They didn't on the Holocaust. Go to the Nazis asking for a
1:09:41
country. I don't know. But what do you want from the Palestinians? This is just unfair.
1:09:47
Beside of that no one no one have the right to take away a country from the people who living
1:09:56
there and give it for another people. I mean Spain cannot come and say we we giving England
1:10:06
a gift for French. Yeah. Who are you to give the the land? Yes. In the same thing more than
1:10:16
that our our prime minister Kharma yes he have no right to take the country England and give
1:10:28
it a gift for Ireland he represent the English people as long as save the English people but
1:10:35
the England belongs for the people who living here in England not for Karma as long he wants
1:10:42
to save English people. Fine. He's our government. He he's our prime minister. But when he he wants
1:10:49
to take away England and give it away for Ireland, then we will say same goodbye. He
1:10:56
have no right to that. The same thing. Nobody, even not the UN, even not the United Kingdom,
1:11:02
but the Balf declaration have no right to give away Palestine for other people. That's all.
1:11:10
very very simple. So again could be they have good intentions but they have to realize that
1:11:19
helping Israel is not a help for Jewish people. If you want to help Jewish people, you want to
1:11:27
help to bring an end to all this bloodshed. You want to bring an end to this what's happened in
1:11:34
Manchester just for 10 days ago. The only thing is please bring the peaceful end for the state
1:11:40
of Israel. I know people say it's it's not going to happen. Israel to bring a peaceful end it's
1:11:49
impossible. But I give you example that the the the USSR was one of the strongest powers on the
1:11:57
world. If people think to bring an end to that it will cost millions of lives. Yeah. It didn't
1:12:03
cost even one single life. And the same thing as South Africa. It's cost but much less than people
1:12:09
thinking. This shows and proves that if there is a will, there is a way. If there will be a will
1:12:16
to bring an end to the state of Israel and give back land for the Palestinians, they will find a way. I'm not a politician. Yeah. But they will find a way if there will be a will. Anyway, I come
1:12:27
back to that. Yeah. That according to Judaism, I looking in the Torah. I'm not a politician. Yeah,
1:12:33
in the Torah it's written a rebellion against God cannot be succeed. The state of Israel will come
1:12:40
to an end. And we hop in trade pray to a peaceful end in the whole land from the river to the sea.
1:12:47
We'll go back to the Palestinians. And again, that doesn't mean Jews have to be killed. Jews have to
1:12:52
be expelled. Jews can leave there like we live in Morocco, like we live in Iran as loyal citizens to
1:12:58
the Palestinian government to to to leave under the Palestinian flag from the river to the sea.
1:13:06
I hope and pray to God it will happen soon in our days. Inshallah. Inshallah. Thank you so much,
1:13:14
Rabbi Beck. It's really been a pleasure to have you on our show today. Thank you for your time. I don't want you to walk home today, so I'm really grateful for your time today.
1:13:23
Thank you. Thank you. Please remember to subscribe to our social media and YouTube channels and head
1:13:30
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