Ep 241. - Death and Life with Dr Kamal Abu Zahra
Death is a subject we rarely talk about but its realities meet us every day. How should we conceptualise this inevitability and what impact will it have on our lives? We talk with Dr Kamal Abu Zahra, a scholar and teacher who explains why death matters.
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Transcript - This is an AI generated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation
Introduction
0:00
Death is just a transition from one state to another. That's what the Sahabah were concerned about. What state
0:07
will I die in? The constant array of shocking scene on Gaza where we see death all around us.
0:13
How do we as an ummah process what's happening in Gaza? Death has become a
0:18
public spectacle. The horrendous thing that we are seeing in Gaza and it's a crisis point. Death calls us to duty and
0:26
it's a wakeup call. We have a duty to the ummah. Death is a subject we rarely talk about,
0:32
but its realities meet us every day. How should we conceptualize this inevitability and what impact will it
0:38
have on our lives? We talk with Dr. Kamala Buakra, a scholar and teacher who
0:44
explains why death matters. The way we see death is that it's actually a
0:49
motivator for change. It fuels our energy to be productive. You know, what
0:55
am I doing now? you know can I face Allah in this state we can't enter Jenna
1:00
with good deeds alone other than the mercy of Allahalamlaykum [Music]
1:13
and welcome back to the thinking Muslim [Music] for having us thank you so much it's really nice to
1:19
have you with us Kamal now today I want to talk about a subject uh which on face
1:25
value sounds like a quite a macab subject to talk about the issue of death and why death is uh a certainty and why
1:33
it's so central I suppose to the Muslim disposition. Um the prophet sallallahu
1:39
alaihi wasallam said remember death often uh because it's a destroyer of all
1:45
pleasures. Uh so there is something about death for a Muslim that we are
1:53
constantly reminding ourselves of and I suppose subhan Allah we can't uh but
1:58
remind ourselves of uh the constant array or constant uh shocking scenes
2:05
really from Gaza where we see death all around us and I want to talk about you know how they respond to death as a
2:11
collective community and how we should respond to the idea of death as as Muslims.
2:17
Um, but I suppose my first question for you is why like why does Islam place
Islam and death
2:22
such an emphasis on death as as a as an idea that we should be remembering and
2:29
thinking about and contemplating? Life events um are viewed according to
2:36
um our own perspective and our values. Um you mentioned the west. The west uh
2:44
looks at it uh from the prism of materialism,
2:50
individual gratification. So when you have those as your um paramount values,
2:56
then it's not a subject that you want to discuss. It's something that um happens.
3:02
Uh and and people would prefer to put that under the carpet. For us, however, uh our values,
3:11
our beliefs uh make it so that death is at the forefront of our minds. It's not
3:17
at the back of our minds. It's not something that we'd like to conveniently forget and deal with when it arises. We
3:24
actually proactively think about it. We proactively uh go and visit the graves because of
3:31
our values and our belief. And that's because it's central to our belief that
3:36
um that we will return to Allah the purpose of our existence that Allah has
3:43
created us to worshiping him and that that is our destination and goal.
3:49
Yeah. So death you know in the Quran Allah say worship Allah until the Y
3:55
comes to you. So it's such a certainty and meeting Allah the to Allah is such a
4:02
certainty and that is the purpose and objective of life that we live our lives in a way that we are accountable and
4:09
that death is a transition from this life to back to Allah subhana wa ta'ala.
4:14
So because of that um it is something that is uh central to us um it is at the
4:22
forefront and and and we take act steps actually to think uh
4:28
about death. The prophet you know he said um uh I forbade you from visiting
4:34
the graves. Uh this was a previous ruling but then he said
4:39
he said no you should go and visit the graves. Why? cuz it reminds you of death. Why? Cuz if
4:47
you remember death, then you remember why you are here, what life is about, what your purpose is, and where you are
4:53
going. And so you are on track in terms of your life and and your in your destination to Allah and your goal of
5:00
returning to Allah uh in a in a state that is pleasing to your Lord.
5:06
What is the balance one strikes between living life and remembering death? Because of course
Balance of life and death
5:13
um remembering death to the degree where you forget life could be quite
5:18
challenging if not problematic but also it may lead to a fatalism where
5:23
you're you're not conscious of uh life and its its travailes and and overcoming those
5:30
travails because you're you're always thinking about death like what is that balance? Yeah, death is not something
5:36
that sort of kind of um freezes someone that he feels that he or she feels that
5:41
what is the point? I'm going to die. Uh and then you know um so what is the
5:48
point of doing anything? You know, I'm not in control. Uh you know, my my
5:54
journey has been set. Yeah. You see, so therefore um
5:59
what impact can I have actually uh the way we see death uh or the way uh Quran
6:07
presents death is that it's actually a motivator for change uh because death is
6:14
is is fuels actually our energy to be
6:20
productive to be active um to leave a good legacy.
6:25
actually you know that pleases Allah subhana tala you know Ibrahim um he made
6:31
dua um oh Allah um
6:41
oh Allah let the prosperity who come after me let you know them think of me
6:49
well and with renown. Uh now he said this um after make giving dwa you see
6:55
usually we do dua after a certain act of so that the dua is accepted. So you know
7:01
when we pray uh after the salah salah we make dua so Allah accepts we make and we
7:08
make dua. So Ibraimisam he made da to his father and then he made this dua
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because it's most likely to be accepted and the dua that he made Allah let me be actually a you know my life be a legacy
7:24
for those who come after me. So in other words that I have achieved something for
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for the sake of Allah not for dunya not for others but actually I've done things
7:36
which will inspire others that I've done things which uh others will follow and
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Ibrahimam is uh you know you know he is the father of the
7:47
believers and and he set us the example that inspired us how to submit to Allah
7:53
when Allah said to him over himself submit. He said
7:59
without any question I submit to the Lord of the world worlds and all the testim
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when Allah tested Ibraim he passed all those tests. So you see his life um it
8:12
was an excellent example uh for others to be inspired and to follow and to emulate. So the balance between death uh
8:21
and and and you know hope is that actually it makes us productive.
8:27
We are not uh morbid people you know who who just resigned to our fate but rather
8:33
actually that's what encourages us and that motivates us uh because it gives us
8:39
purpose in life that if I'm going to return to Allah death is inevitable that means that you
8:46
know that affects how I live my life so it's not just about uh living life it's
8:53
how you live your life that impacts how you live your life whether you are productive, you submit to Allah uh and
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and and you strive in his path and his cause and that is the purpose and and and
9:05
that's why you find the Sahaba and and and and those examples from the past
9:10
that actually the huge achievements you know the illustrious examples were because death
9:17
was at the forefront of the mind and not at the back of their mind. Today over two billion people lack
Donate to Baitulmaal
9:23
access to safe drinking water. Their daily reality means walking miles for a
9:28
basic life necessity. Water. With polluted waters, every sip carries
9:34
risks of chalera, dysentery, and typhoid. Diseases that claim millions of
9:40
lives every year. You can change this reality by sponsoring life-saving water wells in
9:46
places like Pakistan, filling water trucks in places like Gaza, or distributing water bottles in
9:53
times of crisis. The prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said, "Giving water to drink is the best
10:00
of charities. Follow in his footsteps and give the gift of clean water today.
10:10
Turn your compassion into hope." Kamal, should we fear death?
Should we fear death?
10:16
You see, death is just a transition. People fear things because it's fear of the unknown. Yeah. So, you don't know
10:23
what's going to happen. fear of the dark and death is like you know um for those who don't have a
10:30
window beyond it there's a understandable fear um and yes
10:38
there can be a fear of the actual process that the pain and the hal and the state in which someone dies but if
10:44
you think about it death is it's just a transition actually from one state to
10:50
another that one uh state you know living to another we you see we
10:56
die every night already every night when we sleep we actually
11:02
don't think about it uh but that is Allah reminds us you already die
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so there's I in the Quran he said the you know the dua the disbelievers will
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say Allah you gave us life twice
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and and you gave us death twice So Allah, you gave us life twice and you
11:27
death twice. Life is um the life of this dunya and the life that is to come and
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the death is uh the death that we are familiar with but also the death that um
11:42
you know each morning when we wake up from sleep actually we are and in fact there's one
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ayah he mentioned there's certain you know in our sleep some actually do not wake up from that death.
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So uh so do we fear death? What we fear is dying is the state in which we die is
12:03
what we should fear. So Allah says,
12:09
"Oh, all you who believe, fear Allah."
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Meaning live your life fearing Allah subhana tala as he should be feared.
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But do not die uh
12:28
except as uh those who submitted to Allah. So here this wow is
12:35
the state in which you die. So do not die except in that state. So that's what
12:40
the um Sahabah were concerned about that what state will I die in? Will I die in
12:47
a state that Allah is pleasing with me? uh sorry will I die in a state where
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Allah is pleased with me uh or will I die in a state that he's displeased and
12:58
I have not done my duty to Allahhaala that's the concern so it's so the fear
13:04
really should be uh the hal or the state in which we die not actually uh the
13:12
death itself although it's a natural feeling it can happen but once we see it in That
13:19
way what we do is we reorientate our our fear and our feelings and our
13:24
inhibitions and fears toward the correct source of um uh you know focus which is
13:32
what am I doing now? Um am I ready to die? If I die now what will I say to
13:38
Allah? said the best you know the actions will
13:43
be judged according to the last actions that we do. So you know what am I doing now? you know can I face Allah
13:51
uh in this state and also um it's worth mentioning that
13:56
actually um we we can't enter Jenna with good deeds
14:04
uh alone other than the mercy of Allah. Okay. And I explained this to me because
Good deeds accepted?
14:09
of course that's where the fear comes in because of course you could be someone who does a lot of good deeds.
14:14
Yeah. But then you don't know whether Allah will accept her. So you see the prophet he said um
14:23
[Music] he said
14:31
try and you know it's like when you try and hit a target. Yeah. So good do do
14:37
good deeds try and hit the target. Yeah. Uh do do good
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and he said approximate towards it. So you might not achieve it or do the best or the ideal but try and do as much as
14:51
you can uh and have trust and reliance and hope in Allah
14:59
uh in the good deeds. But he mentioned that none of you will enter uh uh no one
15:04
shall enter Jenna uh uh with his deed except the mercy of Allah. So they said
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yeah what even you he said yes even I will not enter Jenna with my good deeds.
15:18
Yeah but what is the but it's by the mercy of Allah. But what is the lesson
15:23
that we learn from this hadith? The lesson is that we as he said try you try
15:29
your best. Don't think just by your actions that would be uh sufficient. You
15:34
need the mercy of Allah. You need his you need his forgiveness. But you try
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and approximate as much as you can and hope that Allah will accept your effort.
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So you do don't become arrogant about what you do that you know look who I am, look what I've achieved, I've done all
15:51
of these things and you know this will admit me to Jenna. No, do these things. try your best and perhaps Allah will
15:58
accept you know and that's why the hadith you know mentioned he said you know
16:04
he said the best action that's the same hadith actually he said the best action is the one that is constant in even if
16:12
it's even if it's little but you you do it constantly uh you do as much as you
16:18
can and and and and so that's what gives you a kind of balance between hope and
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fear that look at the end day without Allah's mercy I can't go to Jenna but if
16:29
I try my best try my best to do the good deeds to
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please Allah that I'm hopeful that Allah will accept this from me
Actions and mercy
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when we think about um that interplay between your actions
16:45
and the mercy of Allah subhana wa ta'ala that there may be some who argue and and again I you know we need to I need to
16:52
ask you the correctness of this who argue that Um, I'm trying my best to pray salah, but I miss my salah on a
17:00
regular basis. I miss my fudger in, you know, in the morning times or I when I'm at work, I can't pray my my salah, my
17:07
midday salah. And so, um, I'm banking on Allah's mercy. Maybe the word banking is the
17:14
wrong word, but I'm hoping on Allah's mercy. Um, is there an is that a uh a
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good position to hold when it comes to this interplay between actions and mercy?
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Okay. It's always a good position to uh have hope and rely on Allah and for his mercy
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because his mercy is greater than his wrath and his anger and a believer should uh have that. uh
17:40
but at the same time uh Allah knows our circumstance and we also know our naps
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how much of that is that I'm not able to to do with the ability how much of that
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is my own laziness how much of that is my own neglect and dereliction of duty
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Allah can see that so you know um so it's on that person to reflect and and
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and you rectify and and improve where at least
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not to uh you know um cross the limits. Yeah. So the obligations
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uh to keep to the obligations and to stay away from the uh prohibitions. So
18:24
it's important that those uh you know limits are set and they're adhered to.
18:29
We know that a believer wishes to meet Allah subhanana wa ta'ala loves to meet Allah subhana wa ta'ala. explain that
18:36
idea especially to non-Muslims who may come across Vish on a regular basis. Why
18:41
do we love to meet our creator because of the
18:47
good news and the mak and the mercy? In fact, this is the answer that prophet himself, no better answer than the
18:53
prophet, the answer he gave to the Sahabah cuz the hadith he he mentioned
18:59
that look um whosoever wants to meet Allah, Allah will want to meet him.
19:05
Whosoever loves to meet Allah, Allah loves to meet him and whosoever hates to meet Allah, Allah will hate to meet him.
19:13
So the question arose. Sahabah thought well you know death is not something that we like but death is the way we
19:21
meet Allahala so how do you reconcile this so they asked the prophetam so he
19:26
said no uh it means that while prophet explained that look just that point of
19:33
death there are sakarat there's pain pangs of death uh it's painful it's um or or it's
19:42
fearful at that state uh it's not uh it's a difficult uh experience but once
19:51
you pass that you're going to meet Allah and Allah will give you the good tidings
19:57
of his rah and his mak so that's what you want that's the end goal of meeting Allah is to be in his presence and Allah
20:06
give you that good news and that that is the answer that uh sallallahu alaihi wasallam gave for a non-Muslim If if you
20:14
see death as uh end of the road, it's just a dead end road and it's not going
20:19
anywhere. Uh or uh you know meeting Allah, meeting your maker so to speak.
20:27
Uh you know what does that mean to to die
20:33
and meet God? uh Islam gives color and and and picture and and and gives um
20:40
reality to that which is that at the end of the day uh we want to be in the
20:45
presence of Allah. We want his good pleasure and we want his forgiveness. That's the objective in life. So and
20:52
that is our destination. So when we reach that destination and we meet Allah uh uh you know and he uh grants that
21:03
and that rahma then we achieved our goal in life so that's a source of pleasure for the believer and so he seeks that
21:10
we know that in Islam our lifespan is fixed our a is fixed
Extending lifespan
21:16
um is there anything we can do as human beings to extend that including like dua
21:22
there is a narration where The prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam said
21:28
dua yeah that the decree of Allah is not changed uh except by dua. Now there is
21:36
some amongst the scholars even in in terms of um authenticity.
21:41
Uh but the issue is um uh there's others who say uh you can and we can make and
21:49
we should uh you know make dua for risk for for life uh and and we should not
21:56
confuse the of Allah subhana tala uh with uh the fact that uh which is the
22:03
knowledge of Allah uh with the fact that that Allah may increase our life uh based because we
22:10
something that we sought Allah for or he may give us risk cuz risk is also fixed.
22:16
Life and death is fixed but we ask Allah uh for these things and Allah will grant
22:22
them but he knew in his knowledge that you would make that dua and that he would grant it.
22:28
Yeah. So that there's no conflict between the and our act itself. So yes,
22:34
you know, we make dua for risk. We make uh we make uh dua for for life uh and
22:40
and hay and wellbeing you know and and we should ask Allahh for these things.
Journey of death
22:46
Explain the journey of death for me. So when someone passes just like plot out that journey for me please.
22:52
This journey affects the journey of life. There is a relation between the journey of life and the journey of death
23:01
such that it impacts your life when you really think about it. Yeah. So the
23:06
journey itself um it starts with uh the sakarat mu uh which is the pangs of
23:13
death uh the the the pain or the pangs that a person experiences
23:19
uh when you know the malikul comes even the prophet even himself he is a
23:27
sak indeed death has its pangs so that's the first stage uh and then you have the
23:34
angel um will come uh and the Malakul M uh the
23:41
angel of death uh will come and and this is where the R is extracted
23:48
uh the soul is extracted from the body and there's a hadith which mention each stage actually uh so for the believer
23:56
it's in the hadith it mentioned that extraction of the soul for the believer will be like like extra um emptying
24:05
a drop of water from a water skin that's how gentle it will be. Uh whereas for
24:10
the disbeliever it will be painful. Um so you have sakarat then you have the
24:17
extraction of the then you have uh the life of the bar which is when the person
24:24
you know immediately when they pass away they enter the bar and this and also the
24:29
life when the person is buried. Um uh after
24:35
the barak uh period of uh between life
24:40
and the bas which where a person is raised back to life resurrection resurrection. Yeah. So, so
24:49
you have uh the extraction of the you have
24:54
then you have um the resurrection then you have the where all are raised and
25:01
then you have uh uh the uh the day of judgment where the book
25:06
will give in on your right hand for a believer on the left the disbeliever and
25:12
then you have judgment and then finally the final stage which is uh you know
25:18
either you will enter um
25:23
either J or which is so that is the um
25:28
sort of end of that journey. Now I said that this journey affects our life. If
25:34
you think about that journey, how we live our life actually can uh and will
25:39
and does affect that journey not only in terms of the end and the destination but
25:47
actually how you pass that journey. So uh the for the believer um when the is
25:58
extracted he stayed in the uh in the
26:03
um he state in barak all of these can be pleasant that he could be he or she
26:09
could be rejoicing actually in in a happy state to meet Allah. So not only
26:15
the end goal but even the journey itself could be comfortable and happy and and
26:20
and person is in delight to meet Allah. Uh or that journey could be harrowing,
26:27
fearful uh and and punishing actually for uh depending on how you live your
26:34
life's journey. So that's why it's important to be aware of that journey. We believe in that journey and in fact
26:40
take its lessons such that affects how we live our life. There is an interaction actually they're intertwined
26:47
life's journey and the journey of death they both affect each other and if we more we contemplate about that journey
26:53
the more actually will affect how we live our life I know that recently um she talked uh
Barzakh
27:00
did a series in Ramadan on on the barak and how uh how we are in
27:07
that state uh but it it it seems to me to be like a very unknown state for a lot of people
27:13
because there's a lot said about there's a lot said about Jenna and Jannaman. Um
27:20
can you just maybe elaborate on some of the the key uh the key pointers you can
27:25
say the the key issues of Barzak you said that you know the state your state
27:31
in Bzak can reflect the way you lived your life here explain that whole whole idea to me
27:38
mean means a barrier basically it's a point of no return so when a pass person passes away he
27:44
enters into this state uh uh in this another world uh called barak. Yeah. And
27:50
bzzak is the barrier between our world and the next and the intermediate world
27:57
if you like between that and finally the resurrection. So that world um it's a
28:04
matter. So when you read it, you get a sense uh of uh you know what it's like.
28:11
But just like Jenna and Janam, you can never actually imagine is a issue exactly uh what you experience and how
28:19
you only Allah knows. But there are a hadith which mention that um you know person
28:27
who is in barak uh will be aware uh of
28:32
you know the what others are doing in the dunya uh
28:38
and you know it will be a and also there will be trepidation of actually what is
28:44
coming on the other side. So the knowledge of or feelings and fear of or
28:50
happiness of both sides you know of of of this world. So um for example in
28:56
terms of um with the dunya so there's one narration um that
29:04
he said um you know I'm I'm so embarrassed uh that you know Abdullahbin Rawa you
29:11
know who was another ansari like him he might find you know that I that in my deeds he might find my bad deeds that he
29:19
will know you see indicating that you know someone in baza can be aware of
29:25
what you did. Yeah. So, so encourages us that um that those who are on this side
29:33
that how we conduct ourselves, how we uh live and like that you know your mentor
29:40
or your teacher you don't want to let them down that even though they passed away they can also experience they have
29:46
a window to how you are. Yeah. And those in barak you know will be either happy
29:53
or sad based on what they are experiencing. And so various metaphors I I think you know one can use to try and
30:00
understand it. I think Sulaman gave the example of of like it's a stop
30:06
uh you know there's an example of someone in sitting on on the film on a bus stop. Yeah. Uh and other ways to
30:14
look at it, it could be a room, you know, so you're in a waiting room where
30:21
um you know for the disbeliever, a waiting room where you know it could like a GP room or a doctor's room where
30:29
uh you're waiting a a a significant diagnosis in the so so that feeling that
30:36
you have so in that room a person will experience sadness. ness and happiness
30:43
and and trepidation and fear based on how they live their lives and what is to come and and and that length of stay in
30:51
the bar you know is uh potentially likely to be longer than any lif time
30:58
that we've spent in the dunya. So that's why um it behooves us to actually live
31:04
our life in a way that uh even our journey is also comfortable and is happy and is pleasing to Allah. Uh that once
31:13
we die it is it is not a quick um transition to um judgment day and
31:20
decision but rather uh what may feel like an eternity actually until judgment
31:26
day. So we want that state where we are waiting or in that waiting room for
31:31
judgment from Allah to be also comfortable and and that we are in a happy state. When we make dua for the
Dua for the dead
31:38
deceased and ask we hear a lot from imams at the grave who say that may
31:43
Allahh make the grave large or roomy widen the grave. Is that a metaphor for
31:50
may Allahh make bazak you know a pleasant experience is that is that what
31:57
the indication is there yes because um once a person dies he's actually aware
32:04
he's still aware he or she is aware of uh what is happening um so uh although
32:11
we cannot contact the contact is gone um
32:16
that you cannot communicate with the dead. However, uh they are uh aware and
32:23
and and that awareness uh you know can lead be one of punishment or happiness.
32:29
So that's why we make the dua uh you know Allah make the jah let them smell
32:35
the fragrance of of jah from their graves because you know there's a hadith
32:41
which mentioned that you know will become spacious for them or like one hadith it said you say sleep like the ar
32:48
like the bridegroom uh you know in a happy state in in the grave or the sleep
32:56
could be of one who is uh awaiting punish punishment or experiences punishment
33:03
in the grave. So yeah and this is all in the bza you know the is in the bz but he
33:11
experiences these things exactly how obvious these are you know matters
33:17
things of the uh we we cannot rationalize them nor should we try to rationalize them but we get a sense uh
33:25
of an understanding of what it is and
33:30
such that impacts us so we such affects our life uh and and and makes us
33:36
productive in our lives. After someone uh passes away, can we
33:42
impact and affect uh their state of being in in Barza
33:48
uh and beyond? Yes. So
33:53
once a person passes away uh the door to good deeds are cut except uh in certain
34:00
things and this is hadith of the prophet mentioned that once a person is lowered down in the in their grave afterwards
34:07
only certain things uh will continue and and one of them the prophet he mentioned
34:13
is the it's the which is or the good deeds and the
34:20
rewards that continue. Okay. So if for example the person left uh children you
34:27
know that is a source of sodakaria or if they left a you know they built a masid
34:32
or they built something that still benefits those after them uh then you know that
34:40
person's reward uh actually will continue uh their reward will continue from the activities or the things that
34:47
they left uh or they will continue through their own children who will make
34:52
dua are for them and the children can also um uh confer their reward uh to um
35:01
to to their um parents. Yeah. So for example, one can make Hajj um on bea
35:09
behalf of the deceased. Um majority of the scholars said actually it's not just
35:15
Haj and Omrah. You can extend it to other acts of ibada. So for example reciting Quran uh and you can uh confer
35:23
donate that reward or confer that reward convey that reward uh to the person who
35:29
has passed away. So these are all means uh albeit limited but these are means by
35:35
which actually there can be a impact between those who are living and those who have passed away. Can you explain the concept in Islam of
Day of judgement
35:42
the day of judgment to me please? What is what is it that happens on this day?
35:47
Subhan Allah. um onethird of the Quran um is about the day of judgment you know
35:52
so uh you cannot read a surah or section or ayat or juice without coming across
36:00
uh this particular subject and the reason for that is because it's central to our being and our purpose in life you
36:07
know so where to start I I will just quote you some ayat that are you know personal to I I read in my salah a lot
36:15
uh you know um it's in surah Um where Allah says
36:34
um so it starts so they will come
36:40
uh and and and before Allah subhana tala so before they
36:46
were under the ground they were buried. So now they will become come to the four
36:52
they will be visible. Yeah.
36:57
Nothing shall be hidden from Allah. There's no secrets. Nothing that you've
37:02
done in your everything will be bare and exposed and be visible.
37:10
So if you can just imagine you know um that day
37:15
that you'll be we'll all be raised and
37:20
and nothing will be secret and then Allah will say um
37:27
who has the dominion today who has the power today.
37:34
So to all of creation Allah say because in the dunya we can feel that we have
37:40
power. We see the jabar and and and the tyrants and the zulum especially in what
37:46
we see in gaza and and and if we see the arrogant who struck the earth and they
37:52
um violate the sanctities and they violate people's life on that day Allah
37:57
will address all of them and say who has the authority today in fact in
38:04
the hadith he mentioned that Allah will
38:10
Where are the kings of the earth? Where are you now? Allah will say, I am the king today. So
38:17
where are all these kings? And so of course you know on that day only Allah
38:24
is is the master of that day. Um and the answer will come.
38:32
um this day authority or power or dominion is for Allah
38:38
only one no one else he doesn't share power with any other king only Allah
38:43
the one who sub subdues all
38:54
and today every single show soul shall reap what it did in the dunya
39:02
But there will be no today. Allah will not be unjust to anyone
39:09
and Allah will be swift in judgment on that day.
39:20
The next ayah say warn them of of a day which is drawing close. cuz we can think
39:27
that oh or death we you know that there's time I'm young I'm healthy uh
39:35
and and and we can um put things off we can think this uh we have time but here
39:41
Allah said warn them of a day which is which is
39:48
near or drawing near
39:55
when the hearts uh uh will go to their throats and people will be stricken by
40:01
grief of fear and trepidation of how will they answer to Allahha what will be
40:08
their judgment on that day
40:19
on that day there will be no friend he saysim you're closest it's not any you
40:24
know because you can have a loose Everyone's a friend. Allah says, "Yeah,
40:32
there will be no close bosom friend to come and help you. And there will be no interc interceder
40:40
uh who intercedes on your behalf who will be listened to or obeyed.
40:48
And Allah knows all the tricks uh of that or the deception that the person
40:56
may have done in the dunya to get get out of difficult situations all the words clever words clever speak that
41:03
this person did and Allah knows what is in the in in the
41:10
hearts.
41:22
So on that day those whom they called other than Allah they will not be making
41:28
any judgment they will not make any or decree it's only Allah who will make the
41:34
decree and he is and he is all here and all see so this ayah You know it just
41:41
depicts the day when nothing will be hidden. Doesn't matter how powerful you were in the dunya. Doesn't matter how
41:47
clever you were in the dunya. You'll be exposed. All your actions will be
41:52
exposed. And Allah is the only one who will have dominion and will actually
41:57
recompense each soul without injustice. Allah will be just to all because he is
42:04
here all hear all hearing and all seeing that we do. So that is the day in in a
42:12
nutshell in that those few verses in kafir and many other as I said onethird
42:18
of the Quran is is there uh discusses this why because time and again from
42:23
different angle different perspectives and different um scenes on yama the
42:30
central point is what accountability accountability accountability
42:36
that Allah will account me for what I did in the dunya. So therefore, let me
42:41
account myself. Now, that's a really vivid explanation. Um,
Emphasis on Jannah
42:48
so we know as as Muslims that um depending on how we are accounted on,
42:55
we go to Jenna and Jannam, we can go to paradise or or hellfire. Um uh when
43:02
Allahh depicts Jenna he depicts janna in the most vivid way and the delights of ja like explain that
43:10
dynamic to me why in the Quran is there so much of an emphasis on the sort of
43:15
material delights and pleasures of jah so there's you know there's
43:22
and yeah so Allah he promises the believers the delights of jah and also
43:28
there is there is actually a threat or or creates fear in us of of
43:35
the punishments of jannam. And these are there to either to for us to um deter us
43:41
from the ma and the sins or to actually encourage us and to motivate motivate us
43:48
uh to do the good deeds. And so um you
43:54
so the delights of Jenna are depicted in a way uh which no one actually can no
44:01
bal or mind can actually fathom. Um again matters but you get a sense and
44:08
understanding uh and you can relate to these uh things in the dunya to motivate
44:15
you encourage you and to live a life where you live for the and not for the
44:21
dunya. Um so disbeliever he wants to live forever.
44:27
Longevity is is his goal. Wants to live for 150 years. you here uh whereas for
44:34
the believer he wants to live a good life that is pleasing to Allah but a life that actually is meaningful and
44:40
productive even if it is short but that pleases Allah and Jenna actually encourages him uh motivates him for that
44:48
if I were to give you uh the example of uh um
44:54
um one of the Sahabah where the prophet he
45:00
says said to him uh when he was gathering the Sahabah and getting them ready for the battle of Badr he said
45:09
he said let's go to whose wit is of the heaven the earth so
45:18
um you know um he heard this and he said
45:24
so he said which is a uh like a phrase meaning wow that's amazing Yeah. So the
45:31
prophet said to him, "What made you say, you know, like this?" He said, "Well,
45:37
because I want to be its inhabitants." So the prophet said, "Um,
45:44
you shall be his inhabitant." And then the battle of bad uh ensued and uh and
45:51
he was sitting watching the battle uh continue and in his quiver he had some
45:56
dates and he was eating the dates and he thought to himself you know what am I do
46:03
doing for me to finish these dates life would be too long too long a life
46:09
to finish these dates for so he he threw the dates and he and he engaged in
46:15
battle and and he became shahid. So here we have an example of a sahabi
46:22
that you know the jah whose wit is that of the heaven
46:29
the earth he could not wait for that uh in fact life would be too long to to
46:35
finish actually eating his dates. So that motivates us actually in terms of how we see life. Uh yes we're not
46:43
fatalistic. um uh we we want to be productive in
46:49
life but we don't live for this we live for the and that's why we see when
46:54
people actually die or pass away we don't have regrets what people say when
47:00
they look at uh they say oh so and so died in vain or they see death in a
47:05
certain way uh uh you know that it's it's a loss and and it's a for us
47:10
someone who dies in the path of Allah you know has actually died you know he
47:16
has amassed the best that the earth can give that in the whole dunya um and I I
47:23
I've been thinking about actually in the context of um we see all people um all
47:30
the dying the genocide that's taking place
47:36
in Alan you know where Allah says um
47:50
Don't be like those who say of their brethren who who uh went in the earth or
47:57
died in in battle.
48:13
that had they stayed then they wouldn't have been killed. had they stayed. This is in the context of because the shuada
48:20
of so the was saying oh why did they go they didn't go you know they sat at
48:26
their sat in their homes then you know they would have been saved they would not been killed
48:32
uh and and they would not have died
48:39
so Allah said Allah made that for them a regret in their hearts but then me.
48:48
But then Allah said, "Allah is the one who gives you life. Allah is the one who gives you death, you know, and Allah is
48:54
the one who knows what you do." In other words, you could have you could die in your home.
49:00
The issue is which state did you die? Did you start die striving for the sake
49:05
of Allah? Because if you died in this state of striving for the sake of Allah, then
49:12
look
49:19
If you are killed or you die in the of Allah then you will get the and the of Allah
49:26
and it's better than anything you can amass in the dunya
49:33
and if you are killed and you die then you will be raised to Allah subhana tala
49:39
so that's why there is no loss in that sense there is feeling for the the for
49:45
the zulum and the hardship uh and the pain uh our brothers and sisters are are
49:52
going through and that we have to uh engage with that and and and and and and
50:00
help our brothers and sisters and find a resolution to this problem. But those who pass in the path of Allah that you
50:08
know they are are shuada and they're flying actually in the bar. They're
50:13
flying in the bzak as as green birds you know and and they will enter Jenna without any hab.
50:19
We know that in Islam Allahh has promised a number of people will enter
Accountability
50:27
Jenna without accountability. So there will be uh people who will be
50:32
uh who will enter that that Jenna and their deeds will not be necessarily
50:37
regarded by Allah subhana wa ta'ala or at least there is not an a intimate accounting of their deeds. How does one
50:45
reach that stage? There is a dua taught us
50:53
oh Allah give us an easy reckoning. Um so
50:58
if Allah were to uh forensically look at every single action that we did then
51:06
we'll never enter Jenna as I said before where the hadith of the
51:11
prophetam that even he will not enter Jenna without the mercy of Allah. So if
51:16
you were to say that we want to go to Jenna purely by our deeds and to be
51:22
judged by uh our deeds and our misdeeds and if Allah were to uh look the look at
51:28
the all the minutia and the details of our sins then we will never enter Jenna
51:34
you know and that's why you know we we learn this dua we say this dua
51:40
Allah give me easy reckoning meaning look at my record Um and the record is
51:47
detailed you know the one who does a good act of
51:53
good deed Allah will see it you know bad deed that is also recorded
52:03
the angels who write they know everything that you have done it's all recorded but when you know Allah judges
52:11
us he doesn't pick on every single issue you know and and and and He he out of
52:17
his mercy for us. Yeah. And his love for his that he will not um you know look at
52:23
the generally and and and and not be exacting
52:29
in that and and and and and thereby by his mercy that we will gain his rah and
52:36
his forgiveness and admission into Jenna. How do we console the person whose family member has passed away? What are
52:44
the intended aims of that consolation?
52:50
Um he said is to pay one's condolences. Um he said
52:58
is it's actually um is is asking reminding
53:06
encouraging the people who've lost a loved one to have patience in Allah. He
53:11
said tazia is actually saying that will comfort the soul of the person who's
53:17
lost a loved one. Uh it's saying those things which will give perspective
53:23
uh to the person who's lost a loved one. So um so this is the duty we have of
53:32
each other that we when we lose a loved one that we encourage each other to we
53:39
encourage each other uh about having perspective that we will return
53:45
to uh Allah subhana tala. So the conso consoling we should do is around that we
53:54
will all you know there will be natural naturally we will feel um shock we will
54:01
feel hosen sadness we will feel grief what Islam does what taught us is to
54:09
actually align those align our feelings you know to shape our feelings towards
54:15
death in a way that pleases Allah You know, so so when when we see the
54:22
loss, uh our belief uh
54:27
it we look at it from the prism of our belief. So when we have a loss, we see
54:34
oh this person that we've lost actually belong to Allah.
54:39
So you know whatever he gave he has taken back. And this is theam taught that uh
54:48
this actually uh this is the condolence he himself gave when he heard a sahhabi
54:54
and their child passed away. Uh he said go and tell them uh you know to um the
55:02
to Allah belongs uh uh whatever Allah gave Allah has taken back and let them
55:09
have and let them have let them have hope in Allah have patience in Allah. So
55:17
what it does um so what he did is reorient that person's grief to iman
55:23
reorientate that person's um hun and his shock towards sabar and so the person
55:31
you know uh looks he shapes his feelings and and and and processes what has
55:37
happened in from as a believer in a way that pleases Allah and and and and and
55:46
which is consistent with his iman. Explain um you talked there about sabar
Contentment and patience
55:51
and patience. Uh we know that also there's this the state of of contentment
55:58
in the decree of Allah subhana wa ta'ala. Um explain that state and whether excessive
56:06
sadness, crying and you know um not
56:11
moving on you know this sort of behaviors that you may witness or or people talk about psychologist talk
56:17
about does this negate that state of contentment and and subur
56:25
again I mean western psychologists may have a certain perspective on this we look at it from the prison of im. So for
56:32
them whatever feeling you have is real and you should experience it and you
56:37
should feel it. Um uh what Islam does is tells us what is
56:42
the correct feeling. So when someone passes away, it acknowledges a natural
56:48
human feeling to be um and these are natural and and and and good feelings.
56:54
Yeah. to to feel love and to feel loss of a loved one to have hosen even shock
57:01
to be shocked it's natural uh to that Islam acknowledges those feelings doesn't deny us those feelings but then
57:08
it doesn't allow resentment so these are also feelings that someone can have
57:13
uh does not allow anger does not allow discontentment with the
57:19
decision w with uh or or or a denial of what's
57:24
These are all also human feelings that person can have. Psychologist might say well have all of them. Uh Allah our
57:32
creator said no that you know when someone passes away these this is how we
57:38
channeled feeling of loss. So he acknowledges that you can feel love, you can weep. Um when the prophet lost
57:46
Ibraim uh he was weeping and Abdman he said
57:51
even you you're weeping and and the reason he said that is because he forbade nya
57:56
nya is wailing and screaming in an uncontrollable way and that's not
58:02
permitted because it indicates or shows that you're not content with the decree of Allahhaala.
58:09
Yeah. So uh it shows a lack of
58:14
uh of of you know being happy and and and being accepting of the decision uh
58:20
and the decree of Allah. So he forbade. So here the prophet is crying. So you're
58:26
crying you know he said he said this is my rahma this is my
58:32
compassion. So compassion and and feelings are legitimate. Um and we
58:38
should have these and we and we are able and we allowed to express these feelings
58:44
but in a way that does not show uh discontentment or resentment with what
58:49
what Allah has decreed and we have when we say see
58:55
that's acceptance of reality not in a resignation you know of uh this reality
59:02
but actually accept being content with Allah's decision that Allah in his hikma and his wisdom has decided this it does
59:09
may not make sense to me why now why this person why another person because
59:14
this is the thing that others who don't have that prison with iman will think well why so and so doesn't have this
59:20
problem why I had to have this problem you know why so and so um oh this person
59:25
was so good you know you you the other person is is so bad but they seem to
59:31
have a long life whereas someone who is very good pious and then they are
59:36
afflicted with a disease or or they pass away early in their life. Why me? Or
59:42
even this type of attitude uh you know Islam came to actually
59:47
uh guide us in our emotions and our feelings. And this is also not only true
59:53
but it's also productive that it means that the person is feels the loss
1:00:00
uh and and grieavves for the loss but at the same time uh this person is
1:00:07
you know does not bring that person down but actually that spurs the individual to be even you know be more active in
1:00:14
his life and productive in his life that pleases in a way that pleases Allah and his messenger.
1:00:19
That's fascinating. So, we're saying here that even your feelings have to be
Acceptance of death
1:00:25
fine-tuned and and uh and tweaked and controlled by uh Allah subhanaa tala and
1:00:33
his message and and we've got to make sure that our our emotions are in line
1:00:38
with that message recognizing those emotions are present. Um it western
1:00:44
psychology has uh the idea of stages of grief and I think the first stage is sort of the shock. And the last stage is
1:00:51
acceptance. And they talk about how uh you go through these stages and
1:00:57
sometimes uh it takes a long time to go through these stages. And for some for
1:01:02
others naturally they're quicker at going through these stages and and coming to to acceptance. Um um from what
1:01:10
I get from what you're saying here is that there needs to be a very quick a recognition of that acceptance of the of
1:01:17
the death with all the emotions aside. Uh there has to be an acceptance of Allah's decree. Um just explain like the
1:01:24
Islamic concept of acceptance or reaching that acceptance like explain that idea to me please. The prophetam um
1:01:33
he visited the grave and he saw a woman a a a woman was screaming. She was wailing
1:01:42
and and he said to her in he said
1:01:48
he says is at the first stroke or strike when you're shocked in your in the first
1:01:55
instance when you're shocked by something. Sabar is at this time and the
1:02:00
lady said didn't know it was the prophetam said oh well who are you yeah
1:02:06
uh and you know and and then later found out it was the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam yeah and and and and and she uh
1:02:15
was remorseful of what she did but what that teaches us is that uh so the shock
1:02:23
is something that we feel and it's natural but we have a
1:02:29
we we deal or process that shock uh with a certain perspective.
1:02:37
Western psychologists will say feel whatever you want to feel. Let it go and let it um and and and and and to
1:02:47
so get it out of your system or or in this way. No, we have release uh but uh
1:02:53
and and we do have grief. we have a process of grief. But what Islam does is
1:03:00
does it in a in a way that is productive for the individual and also is aligned
1:03:05
with uh their iman and their their belief. So so and and and it has a
1:03:13
support structure. So for example uh when uh a person passes away their
1:03:19
family you know we we do so there's condolences given yeah where we remind
1:03:26
each other this is not just we go through the motions we sincerely mean it and remind each other of Allah subhana
1:03:31
wa ta'ala um uh we we visit uh and and and we take food so it's discouraged for
1:03:39
example go there and expect to be fed by the family who've lost a loved one In
1:03:44
fact, we should take food for example the is is not it shouldn't be more than
1:03:52
3 days one so that it's not um cumbersome and difficult uh for the family
1:04:00
and also at the same time that there is a period of grief that doesn't
1:04:06
extend beyond and you know so for example if it were to extend for a week
1:04:12
or two week So people are coming constantly and that is a constant reminder for the individual. Yeah.
1:04:19
Although we want to be reminded of death. Yes. But the constant reminder of and way it just prolongs the grief
1:04:26
that's not productive either. So that's why you know the should not be more more
1:04:32
than 3 days. uh and you know and we support each other by and and we and the
1:04:39
people who've the loved ones um the family who who've lost a loved one um
1:04:45
they encouraged to do acts uh you know of ibada so um you know do carry out
1:04:54
acts of sodaka for the person that you've lost um build a well build a
1:04:59
masid collect money and give away uh and and donate the reward um uh to the
1:05:05
person that you lost. So all of these things actually help that person process
1:05:11
uh and accept the of Allah. So we don't just say accept the uh but there's
1:05:18
actually a support structure in the in the condolences that helps that person
1:05:25
to actually um to accept. So in their mind they will accept or in their belief
1:05:30
we have to accept that Allah's decree but the feeling needs time to settle and
1:05:36
so all these rules around the taza allows that transition process
1:05:41
so the person can and and recover from their loss and and and continue their
1:05:49
lives in a productive way. Do we have examples or of course we do have examples. Can you illustrate examples of
1:05:54
how the prophet sallallaihi wasallam uh he uh consoled the breathing famine you
1:06:00
know with example of ta for example the prophetam said you know um uh you know
1:06:07
take some food uh for jaff jaff
1:06:13
uh you know his his his family you know um because of um what they've gone
1:06:19
through. Yeah. So here we have the example of taking food practical. Practical. Yeah.
1:06:24
Yeah. for example. But in terms of uh perspective uh the hadithu that I
1:06:30
mentioned earlier where when was told that a sahabi their child passed away,
1:06:36
he said go and tell them that Allah has taken what uh belongs to Allah uh
1:06:44
yeah that Allah has taken what uh you know belongs to him and to Allah belongs what
1:06:51
he he gave. So uh don't feel grieved by that because
1:06:58
that we all belong to Allah. So the loved one has gone they belong to Allah.
1:07:04
Allah has taken and and we also belong to Allah and we will all go back to Allah. So there is uh you know so here
1:07:13
is is reminding them of this perspective of of of life and death. Um and and this
1:07:20
you can see in the ayah in surah where Allah says
1:07:25
where Allah tells us how to deal with death and process death actual again
1:07:30
actions that you do and perspectives. So he said,
1:07:39
"Yeah." So he said, "Oh you believe, seek help from Allah subhana tala." So
1:07:44
asking Allah for help uh is an act that you do to help in that difficult
1:07:50
situation. uh having sar is actually uh
1:07:55
gives you perspective and and and ask you to have patience uh you know and patience means that you
1:08:03
know that Allah will reward you and that's why with family when someone passes away we say
1:08:09
we say may Allah increase your reward because when you have and you hope on
1:08:15
reward from Allah will Allah will increase your reward and that's why we say to each other you know uh when we
1:08:22
lose a loved one that you know may Allah increase your reward uh and and because we are told to have and hope in Allah so
1:08:30
that's not a time to be desparing of Allah but it's a time of being hopeful
1:08:36
in the reward from Allah and then it tells you the inevitability that
1:08:46
that definitely we will test you with loss of life earnings property
1:08:52
loss of crops. Allah life is life is a test. You cannot traverse and go through
1:08:59
life without any tests and when the test comes that you you know um you hope and
1:09:07
you rely on Allah subhana tala uh in this because at the end of the day uh
1:09:14
the the ayah continues long ayah I'll just quote parts of it that
1:09:20
um
1:09:28
So give glad tidings for the patient ones those who are patient that when afflicts
1:09:36
them or misfortune afflicts them they say indeed we belong to Allah and
1:09:43
to him we shall return. So that perspective that we've lost a loved one
1:09:48
they've returned to Allah we are also waiting there is a list that Allah has
1:09:54
Allah knows that we are all going to pass away it's
1:09:59
written in the it is in the of Allah we just that we don't know who will go
1:10:05
first who will go second and so this is the consolation it's a consolation that
1:10:11
gave to Fatima you know when The prophet was was on his
1:10:16
deathbed and he said to her that you know uh that be you know you will be
1:10:23
with me you know it won't be long until you will be with me and you will be the
1:10:28
leader of u the women in Jenna which made her smile made her happy so this is
1:10:34
the consolation uh you know um or the consoling and and so ultimately the
1:10:41
issue is we are believers And we process these life events as
1:10:48
believers because that's the h and that is the truth and and that is uh the way
1:10:56
in which we please Allah and we realize the purpose of our life. One final
Death in Gaza
1:11:01
question for you uh Dr. Kamal. Um I uh we've been horrified by what we see on
1:11:07
the screens of this death in in Gaza. And subhan Allah, you know, recently
1:11:13
I've I've sort of forced myself to re view to look at some of these uh
1:11:19
examples because I found myself becoming disconnected from the death and destruction in a way.
1:11:24
You know, you when you hear about it is different to when you see it, right? And um uh but I I do sometimes think how
1:11:32
do we as an ummah process what's happening in Gaza because this is
1:11:38
exceptional. you know these are large numbers of people who have been mowed down and killed in this genocide. Um is
1:11:45
there a wisdom that we can we can um understand like you know this is horrid
1:11:51
and and it's horrible what we see but but what wisdoms do we take from this
1:11:57
mass slaughter of of our brothers and sisters in in Gaza? Death has become a
1:12:03
public spectacle now. uh we what we are
1:12:08
the horrendous things that we are seeing in Kaza. Um so
1:12:14
you know we have personal um experiences of death where this loved
1:12:20
one but that's you know certain times this happens but on on a daily basis we
1:12:28
are witnessing death. we're uh witnessing children and and and the suffering and and the injustice that we
1:12:36
see um that is taking place and it's a crisis point and that for me you know it
1:12:44
reminds me of the crisis point uh that the Sahabanim faced when uh the breast of creation
1:12:54
Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam passed away. So when the prophet passed away that was a
1:13:02
that's a very shocking experience for the Sahabah
1:13:08
you know the one the prophet said if there were to be a prophet Omar it would be Omar would be a prophet he is the one
1:13:14
who found it difficult to process the fact that the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam uh passed away so you know what
1:13:23
the Sahabah how did they deal with this crisis point what they did they realized
1:13:29
that we have a duty to the ummah here the prophet sallallahu alaihi
1:13:35
wasallam passed away uh and he was the leader of that community and that was we
1:13:42
can't underestimate uh that either from a personal for the sahaba who they loved the prophetam they
1:13:49
were willing to give their lives for him at the same time they realize that life has to continue
1:13:55
there is loss The prophet has passed away but this ummah needs to continue.
1:14:00
This um needs to be united. This ummah has many problems that it needs to
1:14:06
resolve. You know Medina the situation in Medina was that they had the uh the pers to
1:14:14
deal with the battles continuing with the Romans internal problems many issues
1:14:20
uh had to be dealt with on the death of the prophet and the Sahaba they rose to that challenge.
1:14:26
And and you know they they appointed Abu Bakr as Khalifa and they united the um
1:14:33
and you know and and that was the masal that had to be dealt with. Today we are
1:14:40
seeing this spectacle. Surely we have to think well why is this happening you
1:14:45
know we have to go beyond just uh just counting the numbers only that so many
1:14:53
thousands as horrendous as it as it is that we need to reflect well what is the
1:14:58
situation of the umah why is this happening how can this happen under our watch
1:15:04
as an ummah under our watch that children are being shot in the head and
1:15:11
in their chest. They are starving. They're being shot while trying to get food. While we have plenty and there's
1:15:19
no shortage. Uh we have resources. We have people who want to give their lives
1:15:26
to help them. We have all of these things. But what is it that is missing?
1:15:31
How can we what can I do as an individual? Am I going to just be a stand, you know,
1:15:39
a a spectator to this spectacle of death and destruction and genocide and and
1:15:45
simply only make dua although must dua we must make but you know how can I be
1:15:51
productive because life has to continue the uh you know we have to deal with the
1:15:58
situation. The people who have passed away they will go to Jenna but the people who are there and the ummah and
1:16:05
the people of kaza and this is not restricted to kaza this is you know also we don't although we don't discuss it is
1:16:12
also in the west bank you know in other parts as well because that is the aim of
1:16:18
uh the of of Israel yeah so um so therefore uh we have a you
1:16:26
know we have a duty to actually think about how we as an ummah
1:16:33
uh that we can rise to this challenge that that there is clearly disunityity
1:16:40
there is clearly lacking political will uh to help clearly um the the the you
1:16:47
know we are subservient to outside powers. So as an um how can we have a
1:16:52
resolution to this problem? How can I my small contribution to this? what can I
1:16:58
say? What can I do that will actually have a lasting real impact in this? So
1:17:04
um so really death calls us to duty.
1:17:10
This situation calls us to duty and it's a wakeup call. The death is you know is a it's a wakeup call for the individual.
1:17:18
But what's happening in the raza is a wakeup call for the ummah and it's a wakeup call for all those you know Allah
1:17:26
has given us all abilities qualities things we can do you know even in a
1:17:32
small way you know if he can contribute to this deen with his melodious voice
1:17:38
you know if uh if uh you know
1:17:43
can contribute to this deen with his poetry uh if
1:17:49
can contribute this deen with and knowledge. Um if uh
1:17:57
can contribute to this dean with his strategy and knowledge. Um if Ali
1:18:03
Abu Talib can contribute to this dean with his courage, surely I have some
1:18:08
qualities that Allah has gifted me that I can expend in the path of this dean
1:18:16
and its cause to help our brothers and sisters in. And so if so this death and
1:18:23
destruction need not be a situation where we are just spectators but this
1:18:29
can be actually the hikma could be some that actually it moves the ummah it
1:18:34
moves you and me us to engage productive in a way that we can actually make a
1:18:40
change to our situation. Dr. Kamala thank you so much for your time.
1:18:51
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1:18:56
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