Ep 258. - The Gaza Doctor TRUMP Needs To Hear | Dr. Bilal Piracha

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Dr Bilal Piracha has just returned from a haunting trip to Gaza. He shares the stark reality: the extermination campaign is in its final stages, and we are running out of time. Dr Piracha is an emergency medicine doctor, also teaching at the University of Texas, and serves as a representative with the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) Council of Social Justice.

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Transcript - This is an AI generated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation.

Introduction

0:00

as a doctor, someone who's who's got an  eyewitness account of what's taking place   in Gaza. This is not anti-semitism. When we talk  about Zionist Israeli state killing people on  

0:10

your cannot take any medical supplies, they were  taking out baby formula from the bags. He said,   "Give us food and then kill us. Give us food and  then kill us." And you would see the brain coming  

0:20

out because he was directly attacked. We demand  that we be let in so that we can tell the world   what's going on in Gaza. Who would have thought  that Marjgerie Taylor Green would be calling it  

0:29

a genocide and Bernie Sanders would refuse  to call it a genocide? We have to reach to  

0:34

this right mega base which Allah has opened it  wide open in front of us. This absolute fear of  

0:41

losing American dream that is I feel like the  cornerstone of our problems at least know what  

0:46

is here what we are standing up for and that  is that the must that belongs to us this is  

0:52

their goal this is their mission that is what  they are living for Dr. Dr. Bilal Parachcha   has just returned from a haunting trip to Gaza.  He shares the stark reality. Dr. Parachcha is  

1:02

an emergency medicine doctor also teaching  at the University of Texas and serves as a  

1:07

representative with the Islamic Circle of North  America on the Council of Social Justice. [Music]

1:19

Dr. Bal Paracha and welcome to the Thinking  Muslim. Dal, thank you very much for having  

1:26

me here. Well, Jazak, I'm really really looking  forward to today's conversation, even though it's   a very bleak conversation. Um, for those of our  viewers who don't know, and I I've been in in  

Gaza’s Conditions

1:35

Texas now for around a week, and subhan Allah, I  think I've seen you probably every day or every  

1:41

other day for this past week, either at the masid  um talking about your time in Gaza, you were a  

1:47

doctor, you are a doctor, and you've been to Gaza  now on three separate occasions. I've seen you at  

1:53

the at press conference. We've obviously met uh  say subhan Allah you are very much involved in the  

2:00

advocacy work uh as a doctor someone who's who's  got an eyewitness account of what's taking place  

2:06

in Gaza and um mashallah you know I I would say  that you're uh you're really spreading the word  

2:13

of of what's happening being Gaza. Now, you've  been to Gaza on three separate occasions and  

2:19

uh the last occasion was very recently. Tell us a  little bit about that trip, but more importantly,  

2:24

what's changed from the first and second time  you were in Gaza to today to the last visit?  

2:30

What's changed in terms of the people and their  uh position and their condition in Gaza? Okay.  

2:37

Thank you very much again for having me on this  show. It's really an honor and welcome to Texas.   Uh as we say here, welcome home. So, so we are  really excited to have you here. Uh, and yes,  

2:50

as you said like sort of it has it was third time  and first time when we went it was last year March  

2:56

uh during Ramadan and we went through at that time  through Rafa. So it was going through Cairo. Uh we  

3:03

had some uh difficulty at Cairo airport of taking  the medical supplies but overall it was pretty  

3:11

smooth. Uh we were able to take a lot of bags.  Then from Cairo early morning you leave and you go  

3:16

through all the way about 5 6 hours drive through  Sai desert. Uh feeling the history being unfolded  

3:24

in front of you. How the whole nation of prophet  Musa Alisam went through that and they were lost  

3:31

there for 40 years due to the reasons we all know.  Uh but then there we went through Rafa border.  

3:38

At that time Rafa was open just it was few months  before it got uh destroyed and uh that was pretty  

3:45

smooth process. We go we went through the Egyptian  side and then obviously Palestinian side were all   welcoming. We were able to take a lot of bags full  of medical supplies which were real crucial for  

3:56

for the insight. U second time last July we went  through Jordan. Uh things were entirely changed  

4:03

at that time. you go through the Jordan border  and then uh crossing the Jordan and then Israeli  

4:09

border there will be can be a long process. Uh  it's like sort of we start early morning 6:00  

4:16

a.m. and then you go take go on the UN bus where a  lot of the UN projects they're all going together  

4:23

and then uh and and most most of them will be  like non-Muslim UN workers who are passionate  

4:28

to work in Gaza still in these conditions. So  it is heartening to see that. But the other all  

4:34

process is deliberately designed to disheart and  discourage that you dare not to come back. So then  

4:41

you will go through that you know the bags check  first on the Jordanian side and on the Israeli   side you cannot take any the supplies uh medical  supplies. This time in particular they were taking  

4:52

out baby formula from the bags and you can imagine  like what kind of the humans will be who are  

4:58

making sure the starvation in each and every micro  level. Finally when you are able to go through all  

5:04

those backjacks many hours of just sitting there  and waiting then you when you cross the just that  

5:10

border building then there will be another bus and  then in that bus you will cross the um like whole  

5:17

you will go through Israel you will see the uh the  board in there saying Jerusalem this side and you  

5:23

really want to go there but you cannot because  you're not allowed to get the bus stop on the   way all the way will go to the border and and then  there at the border of like Kim Shalum crossing  

5:34

basically. Uh this time in particular, you come  across the the the Israeli soldiers, they will  

5:41

come into in your bus with their guns and uh they  will go through your papers and you know check you  

5:47

uh and then you get off. So interesting thing  when I was like at that building a a lady came  

5:56

to me like Palestinian sister who was from US and  she said like are you sure about this? I said,  

6:02

"Yeah, I be like, why not?" So, this is kafia. I  still wearing that. And when when I crossed and  

6:07

when I was putting my bags in the bus, then the  our Palestinian another sister who sort of like  

6:14

coordinates all that movement from one the other,  she said there you are going to come across the  

6:19

combat soldiers and uh you know they they are who  they are. So I request you to please take it off.  

6:25

I said okay for you I will take off. So there  when we uh in the at the when we reached the  

6:32

cream showroom so this time as I said particularly  entering was much even harder than last July. Last  

6:37

July was pretty hard too and then when you enter  there you the armored cars will be waiting for  

6:42

you in the parking lot and but we kept waiting  in bus for a long time because they did not get   clearance to come from the UN house to there to  pick us up and then you walk through the parking  

6:54

lot with your two bags and you cannot come back.  So everything is there. You are surrounded by the   Israeli army there with their guns and you go  and sit the armored cars quickly and then again  

7:03

you may wait in the cars for many hours until get  the clearance and then you enter. And now when you  

7:09

enter uh the destruction like absolute destruction  everywhere. So last year when we entered  

7:17

uh in Rafa still Rafa was standing there like  the life obviously the shops were closed. uh you  

7:25

can imagine, feel, sense, hear drone going around  that you are in the war zone. But then when July  

7:33

we entered we felt that yes we are really in the  war not only in the zone and uh now when now you  

7:41

enter when this time the Khan ununas completely  destroyed Rafa even you cannot go there and the   other Gaza city. So in nutshell entering there is  a big difference and then the situation there on  

7:53

ground uh is much worse than you can even imagine  from the last year. Asalam alalaykum. I need your  

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8:36

you to spread the word, comment, and keep an eye  out for our shows. there. Subhan Allah. And and  

8:43

in terms of the condition of the people, yes, you  talked a little bit about the starvation. We know  

Israel’s Starvation of Gaza

8:48

now that the Israelis are purposely starving uh  the population in Gaza. You would have witnessed  

8:56

that in on your last visit. Just describe  what you saw in terms of starvation and malnut  

9:01

malnutrition. Like sort of the first declared  uh starvation or malnutrition death happened in  

9:08

front of our eyes. Really? Yes. So that was a kid  who got like the news got on the Alazer as well  

9:16

uh maybe you would have seen that as well with  his eyes open uh and don't know he's alive live  

9:22

or dead and it was our pediatrician colleague uh  who was there when he took his last breath. So  

9:30

uh as you may have heard before in my talks like  so on July 19th the the nurses and the doctors  

9:40

there they told me that today is the last day we  are going to get meal from world central kitchen  

9:47

right and world central kitchen has been had been  providing meal throughout this time at least one  

9:54

meal to the healthcare workers and you can imagine  what kind of meal it could be just some rice or   some lentils or something just to call it meal and  that was the day um you know like first time since  

10:06

last time when I came and whenever I talked  I always have talked about hope and still I'm   talking about hope but that day I saw the hopes  dimming on their faces smiling smiles fading away  

10:17

because they said that you know they from today  we don't know what will happen and uh that nurse  

10:24

I mean many people said but one nurse and you when  you were talking to them you you remain confused   that you know uh what are their actual feelings.  So he was smiling uh but you could feel that pain  

10:37

deep there. He said give us food and then kill us.  Give us food and then kill us. And we were sitting  

10:43

in the ICU and um I was like sort of little shaken  by that but still I thought that this is just  

10:50

metaphorical. Uh I mean who in the world would do  that? I mean still we we we had have the belief  

10:57

in the humanity but just few days ago I read the  news uh in the newspaper that a nurse from that  

11:03

same hospital Shoddox hospital father of four was  trying to get food for his family standing in the  

11:10

middle uh you know like in on the ground and an  air pallet so-called aid was coming down which  

11:18

hit his chest and he was killed right away and not  only that but the people ran over him to get the  

11:25

his brother told that he was crushed completely  there. So that was the situation of the hunger   which we saw and we the the our like team we went  with heroic hearts and they were able to and they  

11:36

are still able to run the kitchen at that time  particularly with the local produce. Um but you  

11:42

could see themselves that they're how like you  know frail they were looking and you talk to  

11:47

anybody else you can see and you can feel that  they have not eaten maybe in days or obviously  

11:53

eaten very less and you could see the kids uh  like running around but how weak and frail they  

12:02

will be. So the absolute hunger this time was  like unquestionable there because you could see  

12:10

uh the blockade of the food is really in play.  And uh maybe this sounds like a very simplistic  

12:17

and and a an obvious question, but why? Yes.  Why have they withdrawn food from the people  

12:24

of Gaza? Why have they withdrawn food from the  medical workers in Gaza? Like what's the what's  

12:30

the objective there? Yes, I was uh I just texted  before our interview to uh engineer Ayad. He is  

12:38

NGO's coordinator as well as um journalist and  I asked him the latest situation and he sent a  

12:45

pretty good long written detail analysis and we  will talk about that in detail as well if we get  

12:50

time but most important thing is to break the hope  to break the resilience that is the whole planning  

12:58

there like he said that these attacks of which  are called fire belt that the attacks happening  

13:04

like each and every second and there is a story  of the ambulance driver very like inspiring story  

13:11

uh but how like he told that one you they will get  the attack and they know that after this attack  

13:19

there will be another attack coming and then  yet the drivers will go in there to get the dead   bodies but that's how exactly it is planned and it  happened which you just saw in like Naser hospital  

13:29

that they attacked and then they that was like a  sort of a bait to get other workers there double  

13:35

tap double tap yeah exactly that what the name is.  So uh so so so that was so number so this is what  

13:40

like also coming directly to your question.  Yeah using hunger as weapon this is called  

13:46

weaponization of hunger which we saw by our eyes.  Gaza humanitarian foundation is nothing but the  

13:52

absolute weapon for the hunger to number one not  only kill by hunger but also make you humiliated,  

14:01

ridiculed and completely demoralized by hunger  and then kill. If you're enjoying the episode,  

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14:07

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14:20

the idea is to demoralize Exactly. this spiritual  resistance that existed. I mean, for year for for  

Gazan’s Mindset

14:26

over a year now, for for 19 months, we've been  talking about the resilience and the hope and   and the amazing qualities of the people of  Gaza. Look, I would say if I was in hunger,  

14:37

I don't know how what my state of mind would be.  Like when you left Gaza and I I would imagine  

14:42

you left very reluctantly, but when you left Gaza,  what was the state of mind of the ordinary person?  

14:48

So that nurse which I mentioned you and uh again  like I did not have the courage to call back and  

14:54

find out that the nurse who got killed was the  same nurse or not. I hope not. But how does it  

14:59

differ? But the words he said not only that they  give us food and kill us but he said that we come   here hungry our kids are hungry back at home  and we go back hungry. So obviously you can  

15:09

imagine that how you can work how you can survive  and that's why you will put your life at risk.  

15:15

uh the story of like a a a young uh lady who  has been working with me all these times as a  

15:22

translator. The first time when I was there almost  all lost and like you know all the uh injured on  

15:28

the floor in the ER and I always say when they ask  me that where have you come from so I would say

15:44

Pakistan but I was born in Saudi Arabia and  my blood is Palestinian. And then I would say   that I know Alra Shya which means I know some  Arabic. So that sister was watching me and then  

15:54

she came she said like um do you need help for the  translation? I said definitely. Uh she said like I   have returned from I I was studying in US and now  I'm back here and since then whenever I go back  

16:05

uh we get connected and she helps me out. But  this time uh on her WhatsApp profile there was  

16:11

a picture with her dad somebody looking like her  dad and it was said Allah oh Allah have mercy on  

16:17

my dad and I could not you know ask what what's  going on but when I went there she said that her  

16:23

uh brother who was 15 years old he uh could not  see us anymore the hunger and he like wanted to  

16:30

go to the that so-called humanitarian foundation  and my father was always holding him back but one  

16:35

day he sneaked out with his friends and uh when my  father later found out at night time he ran after  

16:41

him but it was too late for him for the father.  Thankfully the the brother ultimately was able to  

16:48

come back but uh that this uh the father he got  attacked and killed in all the middle of nowhere  

16:56

and then she said like obviously the phone was  not were not working and she was trying to find   him everywhere. uh uh finally she found him in  NASA hospital and he had passed away with him.  

Gaza Humanitarian Foundation

17:06

And so let's just talk about the Gaza Humanitarian  Foundation because of course it's still believed  

17:12

here in the west in the mainstream media. I mean  I've been watching CNN and and the the mainstream  

17:17

channels and it's it's horrid the narrative  that still persists on these channels. But,  

17:23

uh, the Israeli narrative, which seems to still  have some currency here in America, at least,   I think the Europeans have realized it's it's all  nonsense. Uh, the the narrative is that we've set  

17:33

up these centers uh when we provide humanitarian  aid and um there is no reason for the people of  

17:40

Gaza to be starving. But it seems like what you've  indicated there, what everyone else is saying,  

17:46

and is that these centers are really places  to annihilate. It's a way of targeting  

17:51

Palestinians. Is that is that simply what it is?  Exactly. So when I were talking to the doctor,   nurses like the healthcare workers there and no  almost nobody uh told me that they have gone there  

18:02

or anyone they know have gone there and come back  with food. this uh sister as I mentioned. Yes,  

18:09

these these kind of the stories that some ended up  going due to some reason and they come came back  

18:15

dead and we could see like one day uh I mean like  those the victims were there I mean like of all  

18:23

the injuries and there was somebody lying on the  floor in the ER and uh he had a big like gauze on  

18:31

his forehead and as a quickly as you're seeing  like you you you don't know like whether he's   alive or dead so I I quickly like removed that  gauze hoping that there will be like a small wound  

18:41

and we will be able to save him or something like  that. But when I removed the gauze there was that  

18:47

big of a hole and you could see the brain coming  out because he was directly attacked there at Gaza  

18:53

Humanitary Foundation when I asked people what  happened. So that's how the snipers the IDF they  

18:59

are present there and as Colonel Aguilar who was  the American contractor at Razan foundation and  

19:06

he had given multiple interviews there he has very  rightly said and that's what I was told there by  

19:11

the by the people as well as I that I noticed that  those centers the killings not happening just by  

19:18

coincidence they are designed exactly like that to  kill people so so they will be enter they will be  

19:24

they will be forced to walk many miles to reach  there and before reaching and that's why always  

19:31

the the foundation will say uh nothing happened  in our center we don't know no yeah you know very  

19:37

well but yes it did not happen on your center  it happened couple of kilometers before that  

19:43

where ID IDF is stationed and situated to keep  killing and keep like you know firing all that  

19:51

area whoever is coming there and when they will  come inside there will be like uh just food as  

19:57

the people told. So there will be like some food  just on the floor. There will be nobody giving no   system at all. No system at all in place and they  will like come around and go around and whatever  

20:07

like is present there they will try to grab it.  Obviously you can imagine like uh the only the  

20:14

strong could have gotten whatever they could not  the women and the children and but once they get  

20:21

out of that station again they are in the line of  fire and not only by the guns but by the tanks and  

20:26

by the crop copters and crop copters are what they  are like the running uh the flying machines on the  

20:33

drones flying m gun machines have been uh placed  there and they are not being only being used there  

20:39

but everywhere else to remote control kill people.  Yeah, this this sounds dystopian. It sounds like  

20:47

um the world uh watches on as um the Israelis one  by one kill Palestinians. Exactly. And that's what  

20:56

the world food program and other the UN agencies  and other aid program they all have said that this  

21:04

uh Gaza humanitarian foundation is designed  to make starvation worse and that was like  

21:12

an independent research study as well done and an  independent center for the yes that was the femine  

21:19

control center feminine control center and they  have said that the way it the foundation centers  

21:25

have been placed and designed and being run.  They make are making sure for the starvation  

21:31

to happen not to help them. Um Dr. Bilal,  I I at the very beginning of this crisis,  

Stories from Gaza

21:37

we used to watch the social media feeds and I I  found myself slowly passing those feeds because  

21:44

it just became more and more horrific. And I think  I made a conscious decision a few months back that  

21:49

I need to watch these feeds because otherwise my  heart becomes hardened and you know you you become  

21:56

cold to you become numb to uh the atrocities  that are taking place there. You must have seen  

22:03

some horrible horrible situations. Just tell me  about some of the stories that linger in your mind  

22:09

uh since your return. you know as I mentioned this  um this gentleman who was there on the floor and  

22:16

with the skull open and brain coming out d with  direct attack uh the other one like sort of uh  

22:22

this time it was like around 3:00 a.m. and uh I  was in my room and I had told uh the ER doctors  

22:30

and that you know whenever there is any god forbid  mass casuuality which is every day so just call me  

22:36

uh but 3:00 a.m. It was a massive like  loud explosion. You you could feel like  

22:42

the whole our building got shaken and it  I could imagine that it's just like little   uh far away from the hospital. Uh and then I  just quickly ran out. I saw the there were like  

22:55

some civilians like the who were taking you know  like shelter in the hospital. So that family was  

23:02

running around and they were looking panicked.  Um so I quickly like changed and ran to the ER  

23:10

and there when I reached there uh the family who  was like neighbor there where we were staying in  

23:17

the hospital their mother she uh was crying on a  dead body coming out of the ER at that time. So  

23:24

she had already reached there before I eat and  then there were two kids there. Uh I think one  

23:32

was maybe like 7 years or 6 years and the other  kid is um like a 3 year old. Yeah. 3 to four year  

23:39

old. Uh so the one with like I think seven year  old his uh like you know again the same thing like  

23:46

it was covered by the gauze on the on the belly  and I removed it and the whole bubble was out.  

23:52

uh he he was still alive and there was uh I mean  we were hopeful thankfully we sort of like saved  

23:59

him right at that time and then the other kid  had his full arm fractured and he was also like  

24:06

obviously crying and quickly we examined them  uh and then we were able to send them to the O.  

24:15

other colleague from heroic heart the orthopedic  surgeon he then later like went to the surgery and  

24:22

then he came back and he told me that the elder  kid situation is pretty bad although the general   surgeon were there the orthopedic were there uh  but he said hopefully the younger we will be able  

24:31

to save and then uh we got further like you know  all the report that what happened and all that so  

24:38

there was a family just staying little far from  our hospital in a tent their mother like the  

24:46

grandmother of the kids. she uh with her husband  and and another son here and her son and wife they  

24:54

were attacked. They both got uh shahed there and  then those were the two sons out of that that son  

25:01

also got shahid later on although initially we  were able to save and after the surgeries and  

25:06

now out of all that family that little kid he was  only left behind. Mhm. And then particularly it  

25:14

remained in our like in our memories is always  there because we saw the kid every day obviously  

25:21

because he there his grandmother was there and  she was taking care of him. The way he had like  

25:28

the vig here and I think he had like them foley  in place and multiple other lines and I think he  

25:33

had a leg injury as well. So they will be holding  him taking him for the treatment and coming back.  

25:40

Thankfully within two weeks he was able to walk  around all right and he did smile to us and that  

25:45

smile is you know that precious smile was the  reward of all what we could do but obviously the  

25:52

pain obvious um do you see yourself as a a doctor  or a journalist an activist or a witness? I think  

Self-Perception

26:02

everything um I see that um Allah has really  given me uh opportunity to be at the forefront.  

26:13

uh uh I tell my friends uh I don't tell many but  I think that when I came to the to to us one of  

26:22

the reasons I wanted to go to the emergency was  that one day hopefully I mean that hopefully it  

26:30

does not happen but if it happens the situation  like this where we are needed in the forefront  

26:35

so hopefully I may be there so Allah gave us this  chance uh but obviously this opportunity and this  

26:43

um uh you know like this these kind of a chances  they come with the responsibility and that's what  

26:49

I feel like when I'm back here right that just  going there saving few lives and honestly every  

26:56

time when I go back there I feel like me coming  here it's maybe making me feel better uh that  

27:04

I'm doing something but uh we are not able to do  much by just going there to change the situation  

27:12

I really feel bad about myself obviously first of  all and and all other colleagues because we have  

27:17

to plan things in a way that we are thinking 3  to 6 months in advance that we want to go back to  

27:22

Gaza but what does it mean it means that we have  taken it for granted that this is keep going on  

27:29

and we are now planning our whole life like that  so coming back to your question directly I feel  

27:34

myself I'm a philanthropist and philanthropist who  is somebody who sort of like believes in a cause  

27:41

for the humanity and then he gives all of himself  for that cause in whatever way possible. Yeah. And  

27:50

uh that's how some I'm a doctor, I'm a you know  a movement worker, I'm a like a relief worker,  

27:57

witness and uh then talking here about the about  the mission. Yeah. C can I ask you about your  

28:04

return? Um you you live here in America as as  you've just suggested. you you've um you're a  

28:10

doctor here. Um uh you live here within the Dallas  community, mashallah. I've seen you with the local  

28:16

community groups, with IKNA, with the uh the big  national organization. Um do you perceive that  

28:23

Gaza is a burning cause for for people around you?  I'm not talking about your organization. I'm just  

28:28

generally our community here in the United States.  Is there a is there a deep sort of feeling that  

28:37

we need to be doing something um or has it become  background noise as it has probably become in the  

28:42

UK even before going there this was my feeling  and then when came back that even grew up and  

28:49

uh uh I mean like sadly I I mean and I don't blame  anybody but there were like when we came back like  

28:56

the brothers having like you know pool parties  those things going on as if nothing is happening  

29:02

At the same time at the same time uh the I really  feel and believe that the everybody's aching  

29:08

in the heart and we really feel embarrassed  when like the brothers and sisters like they  

29:15

uh come to us and say that you you were there and  you know like we appreciate that and we really   feel that we have done nothing but at least it  shows that they have that pain and they feel that  

29:26

happiness that somebody on their behalf has a has  been able to go there. Yeah. So this this I would  

29:32

say like this common pain which absolutely has  brought everybody together as as Muslim um and  

29:41

ultimately the whole humanity but talking about us  um I I have a belief in that that yes everybody's  

29:48

aching and everybody wants to do something at the  same time uh we had been saying in the beginning  

29:55

that what we are talking is just an echo chamber  and it's going around and coming around on our   own circles but sad Sadly our even echo chamber  are silent now and that is affecting like it's  

30:05

not those echo chambers are insignificant when  the echo chamber are silent obviously there is  

30:10

no voice going outside so that's why uh I you  you're absolutely right as you u notice and we  

30:20

both were here in a in a national you know judice  organization conference and we felt that zazab was  

30:29

just on the side note Similarly, another big  convention happening and they had invited me  

30:34

uh to to speak on that. But overall, again, if you  see that the Gaza is nowhere, I I would just like  

American Muslims

30:41

to say, I mean, I'm you're you're way too polite  to say this, but this is a national organization   that's holding a a massive conference for 10  20,000 Muslims, and you were given five minutes to  

30:52

talk about Gaza. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know,  that that for me is unfathomable that you've got  

31:00

so many Muslims present and Gaza hasn't factored  anywhere in in the itinerary. That's right. That's  

31:06

right. I mean, it begs the question, do you  feel that American Muslims are just not doing   enough? I would say that as a common American  Muslim here, they have done pretty good in the  

31:19

beginning particularly and still many are they're  trying their best. But maybe the leadership is  

31:27

failing them. U I mean like we have obviously like  the vices like Immunar Surman and other like Dr.  

31:36

Kazi and multiple others we can talk about. But  collectively uh as the leadership individual as  

31:43

well as organizational level that leadership could  have uh rallied big movement from uh from of all  

31:53

the Muslims and if that movement of the Muslims  could have brought all the Americans together by  

32:00

now. Yeah. Although there is some progress and  we will talk that on that later that is taking  

32:05

now lead and hopefully that will be shaping the  new movement but yes till now the leadership the  

32:13

religious the political the cultural uh everybody  for example like again coming back to the doctors  

32:23

uh I may be trouble with my friends but I like  a Pakistani doctor we have a big organization  

32:29

everybody knows about that. Yeah, but all their  conferences and all their you know conventions  

32:34

everything is going on as if nothing is happening  in the world. The singing and the music and all  

32:40

that is going on while I will talk to many of  their members and everybody's aching for they want  

32:46

to go there but the the the the leadership is not  giving them an avenue to do something for them.  

Complicity

32:54

Again, I maybe this next question is is  um uh is not an appropriate question,  

33:00

but it's something I've been thinking about  because of course it's every everyone knows that   um this country more than any country is probably  the most complicit when it comes to I'm not saying  

33:11

the American people, I'm saying the American  establishment is they're far more complicit   when it comes to what's happening in in Gaza. Um  in that sense we live or you live in a country  

33:25

where that complicity is very apparent from just  from an accountability perspective you know Allahh  

33:32

is will question us on our capabilities our  abilities about what we can do and where we  

33:38

can do it like do you feel that there is a greater  accountability on your neck I mean subhan Allah  

33:45

you do a lot of work but on your neck as well as  the neck of those of your of your peers in in this  

33:50

country. Absolutely. Uh uh like uh when we do our  kids do the exams here and or we like you know the  

33:57

USML exam or kids do the star exam and all that.  So there as the exam if you keep doing good the  

34:05

exam keeps getting more difficult. So absolutely  like that on the American Muslims lies the biggest  

34:12

responsibility. There is no doubt about that. as  they say we are in the belly of the beast and they  

34:17

say in a positive way but I think like if you are  engulfed in the beast's belly and you're content  

34:24

with that you don't want to you know like tame  the beast or you don't want to come out of the   beast there are no other option either you get the  beast to uh to make to to to do what you want to  

34:36

do which is good for the humanity which is the  truth which is the justice which is the freedom   and if you're not able to make the beast do that  then get out from Yeah, and that is another this  

34:46

is another whole topic of discussion about hijra  and maybe some other time. But the point is that  

34:52

maybe that American dream and that fear that we  may not lose being individually as well as on the  

35:01

level of big organizations. This absolute fear  of losing American dream that is I feel like the  

35:08

cornerstone of our problems. Yeah. That's Yeah.  And sorry and that is what I feel like the pres  

35:13

President Trump is using exactly that that you  know like sort of that number one to get the visa  

35:20

holders and then the green card holders and then  the denaturalization so that you he knows or that  

35:27

you know those those uh racist the racist rulers  of the country they know that this is the problem.  

35:38

This is where they we this is the weak point  of uh those who talk about all these big words  

35:44

fancy words of justice, freedom, truth. But as  soon as the American dream will come, everything   will shatter. Can I talk to you about what we can  do as a as a as a Muslim Ummah and in particular  

The Right

35:55

in your case as as American Muslims. Now um of  course there have been demonstration protests  

36:01

and and these need to continue and I think they're  very important in showing solidarity. Uh but also   there's work amongst the political elites and  until now it it maybe seems to me that American  

36:11

Muslims have largely found alliances amongst the  left but there is this growing consensus on the  

36:18

right. It seems to me u Tucker Carlson and the the  the um the um journalists on and the YouTubers are  

36:26

are now talking in a way in which um we would  never have imagined five years ago even. Um,  

36:35

who would have thought that Marjgerie Taylor Green  would be calling it a genocide and Bernie Sanders  

36:40

would refuse to call it a genocide? I think we  spoke about this the other day. So there is a   a movement a change a development on the right  for whatever reason and you know we can we can go  

36:50

into that but for whatever reason like how much  effort especially a place like Texas where the  

36:55

right belong I mean you know this is a heartland  base for Donald Trump. How much effort is being  

37:00

made on the right um uh to to bring them to  our demonstrations to make them pressurize  

37:08

their government uh into into uh stopping this  uh this relationship I think with with Israel.  

37:16

There's there's absolutely critical question and  that is where like sort of for the last 20 years  

37:23

I would say after 911 we were told that our  survival is un becoming politically active we  

37:31

have to get our candidates there we have to fund  we have to do that we have to do that but what  

37:36

was not being sent but was being done all those 20  years that our survival is only with the left is  

37:42

only with the democrats and this was like I would  say the one good thing of all this genocide that  

37:49

it started when Democrats were in the power. Yeah.  And they remain in power about like one and a half  

37:54

year but this kept on going and they did not do  they did not do absolutely anything. And uh last  

38:01

year before going in February we had a big u uh  rally in um in Austin and there I was one of the  

38:08

speakers and I mentioned about a writer who wrote  book uh on Biden and he said that I have met Biden  

38:16

recently and I told him that below 32 years of  the age everybody's talking about Gaza and he said  

38:24

that if you do not do anything you will be removed  and you you you will be like you know not able  

38:31

to win the election as exactly it happened during  Vietnam war that you did not listen to the public  

38:36

and the public threw you off and that is exactly  the situation as you mentioned that on the right  

38:43

side we did not make absolutely any effort to  penetrate in the right only Allah has opened the  

38:49

ways this is where you know like the they always  say that where is Allah in the equation that and   those things like the those the representative  which you took the name Tucker Carlson and  

38:59

everybody or else I would like to read uh a quote  and uh ask you guess who said that you can bring  

39:07

it on. You can bring it on. I'm totally ready for  this and this is a fight that I will fight and I  

39:15

will give it my all and I can guarantee you and  I can guarantee you you're going to lose because  

39:22

America is fed up. What do you think? Sorry,  I'm asking you a question. Yeah, that's a good  

39:28

question. I mean I would imagine it's someone from  the right. Exactly. That's why I'm asking. So the   one you told us Congresswoman Major Taylor Green  she said these words and who? None other than  

39:39

Apac. She's talking to American Israel political  you know committee who are literally buying the  

39:46

the the the politicians here both sides of the  aisle. Yeah. And that is important to know that  

39:53

this uh dissatisfaction and as Steve Bannon who  was a chief political strategist for Trump and  

40:00

he is basically the driver of the far right  movement and he is no doubt about that that  

40:06

he is a driver of the Islamophobic sentiments in  the far right. Yes. But he said that below uh 30  

40:11

years everybody's fed up with this right and and  they are the people who basically are close to the  

40:17

public pulse and basically that is on both sides  both right and left there had been a complete  

40:25

frustration and disillusionment of this political  cultural and economical the elites hedgemony who  

40:35

have like taken over the whole politics and the  the I mean like we say that this is a democracy  

40:41

but basically is which is a putoaucracy where  like the elections can be literally bought  

40:46

so-called you have the uh like the the limit on  everybody that you cannot give more than I think  

40:52

$5,000 per candidate individually but at the same  time you can make uh any pack and like Elon Musk  

40:59

you can give billions of dollars and everybody  will be uh in your pocket. So that that resentment  

41:06

that revolt is going on both sides and that's  where Bernie Sanders came on the left side and  

41:12

his was like not me us or our revolution uh where  the that dissatisfaction and frustration in the  

41:21

African-Americans in the like you know Hispanics  as well as the Muslims they all became his power  

41:26

on the right side for for Trump the mega movement  make America great again that is those frustrated  

41:34

workingclass white Americans. Yeah. So this is  like a complete big opportunity open in front of  

41:41

us and honestly still we are not doing anything.  Personally, we are trying that we reach out to  

41:50

representative Major Taylor. I hope she listens  to this somehow and this reaches to her that we  

41:56

really want to meet her as the American doctors  and nurses that we meet her and tell the stories  

42:02

from there. I wish I hope that the American  doctor who is right now the American nurse the  

42:07

white American nurse non-Muslim who is right  now there and we talked with her all of those  

42:13

uh of us American doctors and nurses who have  been back to from Gaza we have little organization   uh healthcare workers for humanity so we had an  emergency meeting with that American nurse and  

42:22

UK doctor both ladies who are there now only two  international uh when the attack on Naser hospital  

42:29

happened and that attack was deliberately planned  and designed when the international team left  

42:34

and other international team was blocked so that  there was no international doctor there and they   attacked the hospital killing 20 people. these  two ladies are in another hospital and people  

42:43

were panicking there that uh you know are you  planning to leave and we honestly speaking we said  

42:49

you know if we don't think you getting killed will  do anything for the war so save yourself you the  

42:55

family get out but they said if we being the human  shields can save some people we are not moving  

43:01

from there so I hope that American nurse when  she comes back she come goes and talks to major  

43:08

Taylor representative major Taylor and she hears  from us. I hope we we reach to Tucker Carlson. I  

43:14

hope he listens to us and he invites us. We just  want to sit. We just wrote today another letter to  

43:20

President Trump. We are hundreds of those doctors  who have been to Gaza and the nurses. We wrote   letter to President Biden before and as it's like  he did not never know. But we are writing another  

43:31

letter to President Trump asking him that we want  to come talk with you, tell you what we have seen  

43:37

just on the basis of humanity and nothing else. Uh  you're an emergency doctor here in in in America  

43:43

and that's your day job. And uh from my last  conversation, you talked about how you wear this   kapia uh to work every day as you wear it now.  Um um do people that I I would imagine you you  

Kiffeyeh at Work

43:56

largely work with Muslims and non-Muslims. Do do  uh your patients recognize what you're wearing and  

44:03

and what sort of reactions do you get from them?  Yes. Yes. And it's like sort of it's my day and  

44:08

night job. That's right. So um and uh I worked  like you know in in a university hospital which  

44:16

is a little out of Dallas in a sort of you can say  redneck area and u I think since not October 2023  

44:24

but maybe November December October 2023 I have  been wearing this because I felt that we go to the   rallies and everywhere where everybody's wearing  this and then we come and you know pack it and put  

44:33

it somewhere else. So what's the benefit of it? So  uh there have been pretty good in conversations on  

44:40

base of that and it does open up lot of people  and generally speaking hate has not come out.  

44:46

No way. Generally speaking hate has not come out  because we would imagine in Texas Yes. there would  

44:51

be a lot of hate. There's not much hate. Yeah.  So just uh uh the the story like sort of when I  

44:57

was going to Gaza this time before that u I was  doing my last shift at that university hospital  

45:02

uh and I entered a room with a white couple old  couple and that gentleman was pretty sick. So his  

45:09

wife white lady so when I I started asking like  what's going on and this and that and as obviously  

45:16

we are in hurry always as the ER docs and she was  just looking at me. So I said okay something is   wrong. And then she said she pointed like to to my  neck. I said okay be ready. She said I like this.  

45:27

I said okay. So many of times people say that  I like this. You're looking good you know like   you're looking well put. And then I asked them  do you know what it is? And then there I start  

45:36

try to start the conversation. So I said do you  know what it is? She said I very well know what   it is. And I I am for Gaza. I'm standing up for  Gaza. I every day I watch the news. I listened to  

45:48

that my hearts ache and uh and then we kept going  on and on and on and we forgot about the poor old  

45:54

man there who lying on the bed. Yes. And then the  next day uh when I was in the flight from Dallas  

46:00

to Chicago to get the flight to Jordan. So I use  it for multi-purpose thing. Sometime I like open  

46:05

it up and put it as a the you know the prayer rug  and during the flight I will wrap around my eyes  

46:11

and sleep. So I don't need any eye shield anymore.  So I was sleeping in the middle of the seat and  

46:17

then another white lady was stand sitting next  to me. So before uh landing when I woke up I said  

46:23

you know I have to get off and I have to catch  an international flight. So she said where are   you going and then again we started talking and  then she asked about this that you are wearing  

46:31

this what does it mean why why do you do that?  So overall I really u and then like again same  

46:38

thing she said that is where like coming back to  your previous question people are waiting for us  

46:43

to reach to them. We were like talking again for  a long time and uh she said like I really don't  

46:50

want to watch but I'm watching as you said that  I want to watch I don't want to but watch but I  

46:55

want to watch what's going on by our tax dollars  how we are killing the kids how long it will so  

47:02

so so so that is the point that this only one or  two occasions I remember where somebody gave some  

47:08

bad comment or something like that but otherwise  because of this I have been able I would say maybe  

47:13

hundreds of people just open the conversation and  then obviously we go from there. So because there   is this shift I mean I spoke to we we know James  Bell and uh you introduced me to him and um I  

Shift amongst Right Wing?

47:25

interviewed him and it seems to me very clearly  that there is a shift now especially amongst   younger right-wing and leftwing but right-wing  in particular individuals. How do we get these  

47:35

people to be more vocal? How do we bring them to  demonstrations? How do we make them make it very   clear to the uh administration that this is not  in our name and there needs to be a disconnect.  

47:46

We need to disconnect uh have a disconnect between  uh Israel and and America. Yes, that's that is the  

47:55

crucial thing which we have to figure it out.  Yeah. And that James Bell whom you mentioned,  

48:00

he sort of like came to us. So it was again  another interesting story is behind this that  

48:06

I was going to sign out to to a white doctor when  we uh like he took over uh very interesting guy  

48:14

and we started talking and again the talks went to  Gaza and all that and then he said do you know in  

48:20

Irving there is a casino being built I said I had  little idea but I like showed that yes yes I know  

48:28

I know everything but so he said that this and who  is building that casino? And I did not know that.  

48:34

Uh so he said that the lady who is the biggest  supporter, one of the biggest supporters of Trump  

48:39

and she is the one who is behind at casino and  the money which they will get from casino that  

48:46

will go to Gaza and kill your kids and then he  asked what are you guys doing? So basically that  

48:52

James Bell he is like representing conservative  Christians of this area and he along with that  

48:59

uh that doctor whom I'm talking about along  with another uh politician who was running for  

49:04

city council here they three four people they ran  the whole campaign of the conservative Christians  

49:11

and they basically mobilized us and then in  last Ramadan uh we jammed and packed the city  

49:17

council hall and they had to take that casino uh  resolution back otherwise because otherwise Texas  

49:22

casinos are not allowed and it was going to happen  here and through if it if they were succeeded here  

49:28

it would have been a floodgate of casinos all  over Texas. M so those kind of the people we who  

49:33

match our values and that is where our biggest I  I would say due to the fear as I mentioned before  

49:40

we caved in and we put all our eggs in Democrats  basket whether it be you know LGBTQ or whatever  

49:47

like all those extreme leftist left agendas and  again we really respect them and we like them we  

49:53

want them to be with us but neither they have to  give up their values nor we should be forced to  

49:59

give up our values But we gave up our values just  to please them. So now this uh right side our and  

50:08

their values are very much aligned in many things.  So this James B whom you mentioned these are the  

50:15

white right-sided white people who came yesterday  and and you asked like how to start the movement  

50:20

and yesterday you mentioned about that press  conference. So thankfully in that press conference   we had this James Bell we had many pastors there.  We had uh Jew as well, Jewish wise for peace and  

50:33

multi multiple other diverse representation and  we requested them that you open your doors for  

50:39

us. We again the doctors and nurses who have  been to Gaza from all different backgrounds,  

50:44

all different religions, we come and talk to  you. So this is very important that we reach out  

50:50

to the bases here. Generally speaking, there are  conservatives here practicing religious Christians  

50:56

here. So we talk to them. to tell them that  nobody's safe here like the holy church I worked  

51:02

in that hospital which is also called Baptist  hospital so it is like sort of considered like  

51:10

the Christian funded hospital in a way but I was  there and this holy church hospital is very close  

51:16

to them and when this happened we were there in  Gaza when they attacked the holy church hospital  

51:22

and thankfully the cerebral policy kids who  are taking refuge in the church for a long  

51:27

time there the the classroom and the room and  the kitchen that was attacked. Thankfully they  

51:33

were out for the for the activities. So that  is what we need to tell the Christians. That   is what we need to tell the Americans that this  is not anti-semitism when we talk about Zionist  

51:43

Israeli state killing people on your name. We  need to talk about Y lepid the opposition leader  

51:51

of Israel who said what kind of nation we are  who are starving and killing the kids in Gaza.  

51:56

That is the Israeli opposition leader. If you  read the Israeli newspapers, Harets, what they  

52:01

talk every day about the atrocities of cause. So  definitely we have to reach to this right mega  

52:09

base which Allah has opened it wide open in front  of us and that is where it comes responsibility  

52:16

as you asked before on the American Muslims. We  the American Muslims pursuing the dream having  

52:21

all the luxuries of America having all these  doors open in front of us and still if we remain  

52:27

lost in those luxuries remain lost in pursuing  that American dream which is nowhere there for  

52:33

anybody else remaining how can we be answerable to  Allah but what did we do for this Dr. Dr. Bacha,  

Message to Gaza

52:39

I mean I think this is really sobering what you're  what you're telling us. Um if the people of Gaza  

52:44

could send one message to the Muslims here, what  would that message be? Yes, absolutely. This is  

52:50

very important. I will uh talk about that. Before  that quickly if I would like to touch that as you  

52:57

said but as a Muslim responsibility we have  and what we as Ikina are starting a national  

53:02

campaign from coast to coast which is let Gaza  live and particularly in Dallas we are trying to  

53:07

do a prototype campaign for that with the further  moto of one Dallas for Gaza that yesterday as I  

53:14

mentioned about the press conference we brought  all together and now we are planning from micro   to mega level activities. So micro will be like  as I said like the banner drops and each bridge  

53:24

there should be each bridge banner drop talking  about Gaza next microlevel activity which I and  

53:30

I just we will request everybody to copy that  all over the country that we start showing up   on in the offices of Congress representatives  and senators just focus 15 people 20 people we  

53:40

don't want a lot big groups and they reach there  with the banners with the posters how long you  

53:45

can keep supporting the genocide how long you can  keep supporting the starvation and killing of the   kids And then on the medium level we reach out to  these churches to the synagogues to the schools  

53:55

universities and keep talking about Gaza and  again from the complete humanitarian standpoint.  

54:00

And finally on the mega level and for all that we  are requesting the big organizations and hopefully  

54:06

IKNA will declare that that September and October  month for Gaza. Just we keep in mind that this is  

54:13

going to be the sad second anniversary of the  genocide. Two years have gone in this. So how  

54:18

can we just keep going on with our routine life?  Everything can wait at this point and if those   activities some of you have already planned  bring Gaza in the center of that Gaza should  

54:28

be center even if you are doing some local relief  activity bring Gaza is a spirit in that. So this  

54:33

will be like our request to everybody will be that  September and October months for Gaza from micro,  

54:39

medium and then mega level that in October we do  mega marches all over the country and there will  

54:46

be like this literally millions of people on the  road and if we work on the right side if we work  

54:51

on on the American public we can bring everybody  out inshallah and then also I have been requesting  

54:57

the Congress representatives I had a meeting other  day which did not go pretty good Um but but what  

55:03

we are and it was a Muslim representative woman  but but what we are requesting that we take the  

55:09

Congress representatives and senators group and we  pay their uh fully you know we pay their trip to  

55:18

uh to to Gaza and we say that we will go from  here and if they we go to Bengory airport in  

55:24

Talab as an American citizen we have the right and  there we demand that we want to go to Gaza along  

55:29

with the influencers along with our leaders. If  this big group of American influencers, leaders,  

55:34

politicians, they go there and they are not  let in, then we just sit there. We ask for,  

55:39

we demand that we be let in so that we can tell  the world what's going on in Gaza. Coming back   to the message, the two things. Yeah. One is  urgent level and other is longlasting. Urgent  

55:50

level thing is that when we were coming out  this time as I mentioned those armored cars   caravan takes us and then so-called holding points  which means you are just on the road all the cars  

56:00

are standing there and waiting the until the  clearance gets and it could be hours just you  

56:05

kept standing there so our last holding point  of coming out of Gaza that should be the last   message that which we was there we were literally  surrounded by hundreds and thousands of people who  

56:14

were waiting there for some aid to come in and  the armored car like you know there are double  

56:20

windows and we were absolutely you know told  that no don't dare open the window or the door  

56:25

but we were still communicating by the by by  the way like by just a sign language or they   were shouting from outside and one of them was  doing like this you can imagine and then another  

56:36

one he said like where are you from and then  he guessed from inside I said you guess and  

56:41

he said from Pakistan originally from Pakistan  I said yes and he said nobody did anything for   us not you the Pakistanis not you the Americans  the whole human humanity is not doing anything  

56:52

we have only believe in Allah and we will only  complain to Allah if that's if that does not  

56:58

you know ruin our sleep what else and then the  final thing which is written literally on their  

57:03

walls from their CEO offices the big paintings in  the CEO hospital offices to literally on the wall  

57:10

everywhere that also that and I just got a message  from a PhD professor as well who said that if you  

57:17

don't want to save the the people of Gaza at  least know what is here what we are standing  

57:22

up for and that is that this al-Q belongs to us  this is their goal this is their mission that is  

57:29

what they are living for this is not just they are  I mean otherwise if you just think about it their   home homes are destroyed so what else is left  for them and that is another discussion point  

57:39

which we may do in later that really they want  to leave or not leave and or who wants to leave   but collectively if they are still standing up  there that is a mission much bigger than them  

57:49

but this is not only their responsibility it is  our responsibility as well and we will be asked   for that that this should be the inspiration  and again we should lose the sleep but not out  

57:59

of the shame but out of the inspiration and  dedication that we have to stand up for also

58:12

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Ep 257. - Gaza is Shaking MAGA - Charlie Kirk to Marjorie Taylor Greene with James Bell