Ep 259. - Has Israel Lost the Narrative? | Dr. Yasir Qadhi
The ongoing atrocities in Gaza has made the world question US foreign policy and its toxic relationship with Israel. In this searching interview, I speak with Dr Yasir Qadhi, one of the most prominent US Imams, about how Muslims have to shape the narrative as Israel’s iron wall of propaganda collapses.
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Transcript - This is an AI generated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation.
Introduction
0:00
If there is a standard narrative that has holes in it, then without a doubt it is the standard
0:07
narrative of 9/11, never has a building collapsed on its own. World Trade Center 7, World Trade
0:14
Center 7, by the way, no airplane hit it, right? Multiple countries were invaded. A million people
0:19
died and maybe, just maybe, it wasn't our um that was involved. Tucker Carlson brought up the
0:27
Israeli, you know, spies dancing as they filmed Who would have ever thought that Gaza would have brought about this change? The ongoing atrocities in Gaza has made the world question US foreign
0:36
policy and its toxic relationship with Israel. The bond between our two countries is unbreakable. In this searching interview, I speak with Dr. Yaser Khadi, one of the most prominent US imams,
0:46
about how Muslims have to shape this narrative as Israel's iron wall of propaganda collapses. Gaza
0:54
is of course, I think, the most important issue of our time. America sells its uh Apache jets,
1:00
it sells its bombs, it sells its weaponry. The the notion that the secular is somehow neutral. This
1:06
is a complete myth. There is a growing feeling of a pro Palestine feel and that's reflected in Tucker Carlson's Palestinian various interviews. Marjgery Taylor Green who would have thought
1:15
without America, Israel could not continue. We're here in Texas with Dr. Yaser Kadi. Uh Dr.
1:26
and welcome to the thinking Muslim. It's my pleasure to be on again. Well, thank you for uh
1:32
for coming into our Texas uh standing studio here to brother Mahmud and Sari for providing us this
1:41
space. Uh now uh I arrived on Friday and I went to your hudba uh at Epic Masid and alhamdulillah
1:49
I saw I heard a really fabulous amazing hudba on on Gaza and uh I must say that you know there are
1:56
there have been some very consistent voices on Gaza and you're one of those who've called out
2:01
uh the the hypocrisy and the genocide. uh and I want to focus a lot of that convers a lot of
2:06
our conversation today on Gaza in particular but also I suppose the status of the American Muslim
2:13
community in response to Gaza uh as well as maybe a broader conversation about American
2:18
foreign policy inshallah. So Jazak thank you for for once again um uh coming back into into the
2:26
studio for for this conversation. Now let me start the conversation by laying out I think what I feel
2:31
to be some foundational ideas about Islam, the west and our need to preserve and build. Gaza is
2:38
of course I think the most important issue of our time and I think I got that I got that sense from
2:44
uh from the hudba I listen to and I advise uh all of our viewers to go back to to to
2:49
your Friday hudba. You are an American Muslim. uh how much do you blame US foreign policy for what
US foreign policy
2:56
is taking place to our brothers and sisters? How much do I blame? Well, let's take a step back here. Um let's begin with some basics. First and foremost, in terms of financial aid,
3:10
uh the American government has given far and above the largest sums of money to Israel since its
3:16
inception. estimates are upwards of $150 billion dollar $150 billion dollars have been given in
3:26
financial aid to one country alone. If you were to combine all the other countries that America gives aid to, it wouldn't even come close. So, one country is getting the lion share. Additionally,
3:36
uh Israel is supplied the top leading weapons. America sells its uh Apache jets,
3:43
it sells its bombs, it sells its weaponry, and it sells its infrastructure. In other words,
3:49
uh people don't understand it's not just that you sell the weapons and they do it as they please. No, it's the updating, it's the monitoring, it's the servicing. America has contracts directly
3:58
with Israel. In fact, the technology to spy on the people of of Gaza, the the uh uh artillery, sorry,
4:06
the the satellites, I meant the satellites, the drones, all of this. It is actually America that is directly feeding as we speak the reality of life in Gaza. In fact, uh there are plenty of
4:17
evidence evidences to suggest that it is American technology that is actually telling uh Israeli
4:23
missile operators where exactly to strike. Subhan Allah. So there's a live feed that America is
4:29
giving directly to Gaza. On the political front, on the political front, as you're all aware,
4:34
the quote unquote five superpowers have the right to veto. And it is America and America alone that
4:41
has gone consistently out of its way in the last 40 years to veto, I kid you not, 45 times UN
4:49
resolutions that were aiming to even just verbally condemn, not even to apply sanctions, just to
4:54
verbally say, "Hey guys, you did wrong." And a tap on the wrist, right? And America stands up and quite literally vetos resolution after resolution after resolution. According to some statistics,
5:05
America has used its veto more for Israel than for any other cause. Imagine that that you're
5:11
actually vetoing something for another country more than you are vetoing for your own self.
5:19
On top of this, this is the pre-occtober 7th stuff. As for post October 7th, subhan Allah,
5:26
we seek Allah's refuge. But after all of this military offensive began, rather than cut back,
5:31
rather than assess, on the contrary, our government doubled down. Quite literally
5:37
the week after October 7th, then President Biden signed a bill for an additional 10
5:43
or 15 billion dollars for Gaza. Earlier this year, uh earlier this year, President Trump
5:49
signed yet another bill to sell weapons and arms. Once again, vetos are taking place. So,
5:54
we see consistently time and time again. In fact, uh the American uh politicians and media has
6:01
consistently refused to use the term genocide. They are one of the main uh entities that are
6:08
preventing even the term genocide. You're all seeing they're doing a witch hunt for the ICC,
6:13
the International Court, you know, which is the highest court in the United Nations. They're actually doing a witch hunt against the people that are attempting to call what
6:22
is happening in genocide. We can go on and on and on. So you're asking me how much of a role
6:28
America is playing. I say exactly as Allah subhana wa ta says in the Quran regarding these people.
6:38
Wherever they are, they shall be humiliated
6:43
except if Allah allows and then they have an umbilical cord with some peoples. They cannot
6:49
do it themselves. They have an umbilical cord. The umbilical cord that the current apartheid regime
6:55
of Israel has that umbilical cord is feeding straight into our foreign policy. Therefore,
7:01
without America, Israel could not even exist and sustain itself. Without America, Israel could not
7:08
continue its genocide. So without a doubt, without a doubt, America is not just aiding and abetting.
7:14
America is directly involved. And this is what makes it so difficult and problematic. Because
7:19
after I've said all of that, after I've said all of that, some people are going to say, "Well, then why are you still in America? What is your function over here?" And that is indeed a very
7:29
difficult question to answer. The way to answer this question is first and foremost, and I know
7:35
you didn't ask it, but it needs to be said because I brought up some very difficult points. Well, actually, because straight after your hudba, I met a really lovely brother in your masid. Uh, and uh
American Muslims making hijrah
7:44
he said to me, he's leaving the country very soon. He's he's at the heart of your community. And I asked him why, like you're in Dallas, Dallas Sharif. Why are you leaving the community? And
7:53
he said, I I can't bear giving my tax dollars anymore uh to this government that's committing
7:59
a genocide. You know that's that is probably quite typical of the uneasiness a lot of people
8:05
feel especially in your and I have been very uh explicit in my response to this type of scenario
8:10
and question. It is not obligatory to remain here or anywhere and it is your decision and whoever
8:16
wishes to go to another place or land that is I have nothing positive or negative that is a very
8:22
valid paradigm to hold and I do not criticize that paradigm. I have chosen not to and the reason for
8:29
this is I think uh needs to be made very clear and that is that it's not that I don't acknowledge all
8:35
of these negatives. I've just listed them. But when assessing where one should live, one should also take into account not just the current negatives but the potential for positive
8:46
and the potential for change. When you take that into account, this is where and again as of yet
8:52
these are all contextual based things can change. our country is headed in a soft, you know, fascist manner. I don't think it's going to actually get there. I think this is a little bit too, you know,
9:01
fear-mongering. I don't think America is going to become a fascist republic. I just don't see that happening. But you never know. You cannot predict the future, right? So, if America remains as it
9:10
is, then I'm not just looking at this long list of negatives. I'm also looking at the positives.
9:16
And those positives are frankly outweighing for me the negatives that exist. I believe and this is an
9:23
assessment I have to answer to Allah for I believe that I can do more for the um and benefit the
9:30
globe and try to bring about more positive change where I am in my base over here in my land over
9:37
here. This is my country in the end of the day. I didn't choose it. I was born here. I've never had a citizenship other than that of America. I was born and raised in this country and I recognize
9:45
there are a lot of negatives but I also recognize there are positives and of those positives is the
9:52
ability to preach the truth and the ability to effect change with very very limited uh uh if you
10:02
like setbacks from political entities. I can call out my own country. I can effect change within my
10:08
uh uh system. I can fundra for a a myriad of causes. I can create institutions that are
10:14
teaching and preaching. I can do so much. In fact, yeah, Muhammad, the reality, the bitter reality,
10:20
your own podcast that you are doing, right? Which majority Muslim country would allow you
10:26
to do this? What freedoms would we have in so many other places to educate to teach the people? So,
10:31
my humble analysis in this regard is every person needs to make up their mind. I can't I can't
10:37
decide for other people where they should live. But you need to see what are you contributing, not just the negatives. And those people that are not contributing anything, those people
10:45
that are not doing anything and they feel that there's negatives for them and their families,
10:50
go find a place and live somewhere. But realize there's no utopia on earth. And wherever you go,
10:55
there's going to be pros and cons. So every person needs to weigh those pros and cons. By the way, I also need to make one other need to make one other point and that is the tide is changing.
11:04
Survey after survey has demonstrated that the broad American public for the first time in 70
11:10
years, the vast majority of both Democrats and Republicans in terms of voters are actually more
11:17
sympathetic towards than they are towards Israel. This is momentous for me. This is not at all the
11:26
time to leave. This is the time to stay and be people that effect change. Be people that act as
11:32
catalysts. Be people that preach and teach to the masses and keep on trying your best because in the end of the day, one thing about this country, which again, I guess we're going to get there,
11:41
is that we do have a minuscule power and potential to affect change. It is minuscule.
11:49
It's it's frustrating. It's long-term, but it is there. And we see this already. So is
11:58
this the time to stand up and leave? Because I just explained to you that our foreign policy is
12:03
disastrous. Guess what? More and more Americans are waking up to this reality. And as they are,
12:09
it's going to be a trickle down effect or trick trickle up effect in this case where it's affecting the politicians where slowly but surely you're going to see a change in the rhetoric and
12:19
in the policies. So I look not just at the current negatives. I look at the potential for positives
12:25
and I have made an assessment for myself that it is most beneficial for me for for the sake of the
12:31
um for the sake of creating positive change if I remain where I am and continue to benefit the um
12:37
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to provide free thought-provoking content, but I need you to spread the word, comment,
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and keep an eye out for our shows. Earlier today, I had lunch with a a MAGA supporter,
13:24
a young MAGA supporter, Make America Great Again, Republican, who said to me that he can
13:30
barely find anyone under the age of 40 within the Republican party right that support Israel today.
13:36
There is a growing feeling of a pro Palestine feel and that's reflected in Tucker Carlson's various
13:42
interviews. Marjgery Taylor Green who would have thought unbelievable unbelievable MTG who would have ever thought right so there is a shift you know it's a very very interesting shift and I
13:52
think actually probably uh you know a a a shift that one needs to be very aware of because that
14:00
shift has the potential of changing American foreign policy to the better. Exactly. Um, how much do you think Muslims are involved in shaping that opinion? Because the impression
Muslims and narrative
14:12
I'm getting is that this is almost being done by the right through the right, but Muslims aren't
14:18
currently really involved in that conversation. I suppose the broader question is like how how much
14:23
are Muslims impacting that change that you you claim or you say that Muslims should be
14:29
uh impacting in this country? So one thing as you know very well is that our percentages in this
14:35
country are radically different than anywhere else in Europe. And this is actually one of my uh pet peeves about my European brothers and sisters that Allah has blessed them with much
14:44
higher percentages of change right you how much can we do in this country when we are quite
14:50
literally less than realistically speaking we're less than 1%. Max people say is maybe 1.21 but
14:57
realistically in terms of activist Muslims less than 1%. America is a massive massive continent.
15:02
You know we have 350 60 million people you know. So in that the number of Muslims that are actively
15:09
involved going to the massid wanting to really you know live up to the ideals of Islam they are
15:15
they are the few amongst you know such a small uh uh such a small number. So how much can we
15:22
do? Also let me bring up again as is typical with what I do blunt but awkward realities.
15:28
Sometimes for us to bring up a particular topic is not in our best interests. It is actually as
15:35
Allah says in the Quran right a a family member bore witness. Sometimes when a family member bears
15:45
witness sometimes sometime when from within when the same fact is said right a lot of credibility
15:53
is based upon not what is said but who says it. So, let me go on to a bit of a tangent here,
15:59
but welcome a very, very amazing development from Tucker Carlson, from uh Candace Owens, and from
The Right and 9/11
16:08
others on the right. For the longest time, there was a topic that was considered absolutely taboo.
16:15
Nobody would dare bring it up. So much so that when at a national convention, one of the senior
16:21
uh scholars of the country did bring it up. I actually had a private conversation with him off the the, you know, off the cuff. you know after he and I said she do you really think it is wise
16:29
for us Muslims to mention this reality what am I talking about I'm talking about the very difficult
16:35
questions regarding 9/11 right that was considered to be taboo nobody ever spoke about the unanswered
16:43
questions and for 25 years the way that you know the media and our politicians framed it if
16:49
you dare ask any questions you are automatically labeled to be some far you know crazed conspiracy
16:54
theorist guess what in the last few months as a result of Subhan Allah. This is one of the most
17:01
bizarre, you know, repercussions. Who would have ever thought that would have brought about this change? Both Candace and Tucker, both of them multiple times have brought up some of the more
17:12
awkward questions and said them to their entire audiences. Listen, I'm not a crazy conspiracy theorist. I'm a rational person. I have a degree in engineering. You know, I I know my science.
17:23
There are facts that are simply undeniable. Never in all engineering history has a a skyscraper been
17:31
brought down because of a plane crash. Never have fires brought down a steel reinforced skyscraper.
17:38
Right? Never has the Pentagon ever been attacked in all of American history because the Pentagon is the most well-guarded fortress in the world. There is technology that's guarding the Pentagon
17:48
that we don't even know about. never has a building collapsed on its own. World Trade
17:54
Center 7, World Trade Center 7, by the way, no airplane hit it, right? And it was actually, according to the official narrative, debris from across the road 500 400 ft away. Imagine it's
18:06
actually across the It's not even It's not even connected to World Trade Center 1 and two, right? World Trade Center 7 has a freef fall collapse. And what is the official, you know, story? Well,
18:16
debris from World Trade Centers one and and two flew hundreds of feet and the fires continue
18:23
to grow in a skyscraper until it has a free fall after a few hours. Right? And by the way, in all
18:31
of this, amazingly, World Train Center 1 and two and seven and the entire ground zero is destroyed.
18:37
But amazingly, within a few hours, somebody finds the passport of one of the hijackers on a domestic
18:43
flight. Nobody travels with a flag. So, and again, these are all facts. Tucker Carlson brought up the
18:50
Israeli, you know, spies dancing as they film. And this isn't me. This is Tucker. Candace Owen brings
18:55
this up, right? So, these are facts. These are not these are not, you know, theories. I don't have
19:01
answers to these theories. I don't have answers to these facts. Excuse me. How do we explain that a
19:07
group of supposedly amateur people studying to to fly a Cessna in Florida, right? How do we explain
19:15
that all of these series of coincidences happens on one time and occasion from a group of people
19:21
that forget technology? They're only armed with with what? With pocket knives. For the first time,
19:28
Tucker Carlson and Candice Owens and others on the right are consistently saying something doesn't
19:35
make sense here. So, I am saying, "Yeah, Muhammad, let them ask these questions. Let them because the
19:42
minute I do it or you do it, we're automatically dismissed as crazy conspiracy theorists." But it
19:47
is high time that people start looking in and asking the difficult questions because
19:52
just imagine just imagine a scenario in which it is discovered that a foreign country might
19:59
have been behind 911. Just imagine imagine the repercussions in the American psyche. Imagine the
20:07
immediate impact on our foreign policy. Imagine how because listen firstly there's multiple I'm
20:13
an American. Leave let's say everything else aside. Why should my tax dollars be spent on
20:19
defending another country? Why should $7 trillion have been spent in invading three countries? You
20:25
know, personal issue here. I don't mind saying this. You know, my father, may Allah bless him, he's 90 years old. He's not doing well now. He's on hospice care, paleotative care. The the the
20:33
health care system is gone. It's not taking care of my father. I have to pay through my my my,
20:39
you know, literally an arm and a leg to take care of him in his paleotative state. The the health care system is not working. In almost every other developed country in the world at this stage,
20:49
there would be help, nurses, whatnot. In this country, nothing. Why should we be spending
20:54
billions overseas? As an American, as a Muslim, my religion was maligned on 911. What if it wasn't my
21:02
core religionist? As a person who cares about the ummah, multiple countries were invaded. A million
21:07
people died. And maybe, just maybe, it wasn't our um that was involved. So, I have every right to
21:14
want to go back and question, but I can't do it because when I do it is going to be deemed to be a crazy lone conspiracy guy wanting to rethink through. And allow me to crack a joke at my own
21:24
expense here. If there is a standard narrative that has holes in it, then without a doubt,
21:32
it is the standard narrative of 9/11. It has massive holes in it. So, the fact that, you know,
21:37
Tucker and Candice are themselves rethinking through and they're starting a wave, I would say,
21:43
"Yeah, Muhammad, let's just get out of the way and let them do their job so that hopefully we
21:49
get to the answers of these very, very difficult questions that nobody has ever had the courage to to verbalize, much less actually investigate." Now, obviously, as I ask all of these questions,
21:59
firstly, I don't have answers to them. I mean, you know, Allah knows what all these answers are. And secondly, the the tragedy of 9/11, there's no justification for it. No matter what, you know,
22:07
the the the anger might be, whoever did it did something wrong and it caused, you know, it wre havoc and killed innocent life. So there's no justification. But the only questions we have
22:17
to ask ourselves is, were a bunch of people living in caves solely responsible for one of the most bizarre aspects of the last 30 years? Or perhaps was there, you know, other help? And that's really
22:27
where I don't know. I put my hands up and I say, "I don't want to be a crazy consp conspiracy theorist, but at the same time, I don't want to have answers to these questions." If you're
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22:49
Um I'm going to come back to Candace and Tucker in a second, but at the earlier at the very beginning of that answer you talked about numerically the American Muslim community is not as 1% 1%
23:02
uh and in Europe we have we have larger numbers but what I've witnessed here is that alhamdulillah and I' I've really found this trip uh you know interesting in in the sense that I found that
23:12
uh even though you may not have numbers you've got real resources, you've got capital um you have got
American Muslims resources
23:19
expertise here which actually we don't have in in that quantity anywhere in Europe. Um I just
23:25
feel and and maybe I'm you know I don't know enough about the American Muslim community but um I'm a Brit and that's never stopped me from from talking about the American Muslim community.
23:34
I I feel that uh there's enormous resource and potential here and I wonder whether that resource
23:41
is being deployed in an effective way for Gaza and other matters. Mhm. So this is where our uh
23:48
dichotomy comes. On the one hand, and uh forgive me for sounding patriotic in this sense here,
23:55
in my travels throughout all of Europe and Canada and Australia, I assess the American Muslims as being miles ahead in terms of our vision and our foresight.
24:06
You think big and we think strategically and we have a bit of vision by and large. Yes,
24:12
we still have those voices here and there, but by and large, you know, we are and again, this is just factually the reality. By and large, we are better educated. That's just it's not
24:20
because of we're more smarter. It's just simply because the visas were given in America. You know, my father came on a student visa. Most American Muslim immigrants, not all, but especially in
24:30
the 70s, my 60s, my dad came 70s and 80s, the majority of visas were only given to students. So,
24:36
and of course, as you're aware as a Brit in in the 50s and 60s, England, the majority of visas were
24:42
given to the labor class, right? And the same goes for Australia back in the 60s and 70s. This has changed now. The same goes for Canada. The same goes for for Germany. The same goes for Sweden,
24:51
uh, Norway, all of these countries post World War II, they opened their doors not to the educated
24:57
elite, but rather to the labor class. And that's again, it's nothing to do with IQ. It's nothing. It's just the way that socio sociopolitically it translated. So because of this in America
25:08
by and large the American Muslim community is highly educated and because our parents may
25:13
Allah bless them now I thank that when you were a teenager you were always you know pushing back because they were adamant on education engineering medicine accounting alhamdulillah my generation
25:23
and those younger than me they are not in the you know uh upper middle they are in the top
25:28
mashallah any 5 10% many of them are in mashallah very wellto-d do we have so many millionaires and
25:35
multi-millionaires and even billionaires, right? Go to so many of the cities and you will see this. So, we have intelligence, we have capital. What we don't have is demographics and number. That
25:47
is one of our biggest negatives. So, with even all that you have now, you visited a number of major cities. Of course, you do realize that in the major cities, we are obviously more than 1%,
25:56
right? It is estimated that in Plano and in our area, we're probably around 5%. You know, so in our region where you are right now, it's way more. that when you go to the average town, the average
26:06
city across the country, you know, the average, you know, little towns and whatnot, you'll hardly find a mosser community. We're talking about the major communities, LA, New York, Chicago, uh,
26:15
you know, uh, uh, obviously Houston, Dallas, these ones we have, alhamdulillah, good percentages. But are we doing enough? Obviously not. However, I would say, alhamdulillah, the tide is changing. We
26:27
are now coming to the realization that our fathers and generation built the massagid. you know, they built the Islamic schools. May Allah bless them. Now is the time for community building
26:36
of a different nature. For the very first time, we're talking about lobbying. We're talking about
26:42
uh building think tanks. We're talking about media representation. All of this is changing. And I'm
26:47
actually very optimistic. What we see in the last decade, actually in the last two decades, post 911, we are moving in leaps and bounds. So give us some time, cut us some slack and I hope inshallah
26:58
within a generation you're going to see an entire different discourse and the rest of the western
27:03
world is looking to us as the Muslim committee of America and taking from us and may Allah allow us
27:09
all to help each other in this regard. I mean I I want to talk about ideological commitments and uh
Dangerous to ally with the right?
27:14
the ideological commitments of the American Muslim community. Um, we've just spoken about Candice
27:21
and Tucker and and others, Marjorie Taylor Green and what seems like a moving in a very positive
27:28
direction from the MAGA movement despite of course their Islamophobia which still persists and exists
27:34
and and you know what some will call like a white chauvinism that certainly exists within some camps
27:39
of that mega movement. But nevertheless, there is a movement that seems to be positive. I Marjgerine
27:45
called it a genocide. You know Bernie Sanders has not yet the word. Exactly. Um so we have the right
27:52
who who are showing favorable political opinions towards Muslims. Now is there a danger for the
27:57
Muslim community here in building deep ideological alliances with the right? So yeah Muhammad there's
28:04
always danger in aligning yourself with either of the two parties. But as you also understand
28:10
you're a political analyst. America for the last 220 years has been a two-party system unlike in
28:19
many other European countries where minority parties can form coalitions and can you know
28:24
you guys mashallah are forming a third party right now in the UK you know and you know more power to them may Allah bless the some of the people are good Muslims involved they want to do something
28:32
may Allah bless them and this excellent but people on the other side of the pond need to understand third party system in America is going to take a long time to become effective. So, as you know,
28:44
one of my issues is I don't like speaking in platitudes and slogans. It sounds good. I'll
28:50
win brownie points. The people online will love it and it won't get me into any trouble. But I it's not going to solve any problems. So, what do we do right now? There's a genocide going
28:59
on. Do we form a third party? Of course. Ideally, theoretically, utopically, ideally, we should have
29:05
our own party. Excellent. Yah. Let's form it. Now, which member of Congress will be elected from that
29:11
party? In fact, let's be very candid here. How many third parties already exist? Last I checked,
29:18
at least half a dozen, if not more. Actually, more than half a dozen. There's already third parties that are they've been around for decades. Not a single member of Congress, not a single senator,
29:29
not a sing, it has not even happened once. So do you think 1% of America, which is the Muslim community, if we were to hypothetically come together, which we're not, if we were to unite,
29:38
what would a third party do? So ideally, we need to form a third party. Now, practically speaking,
29:44
what can we do? We can start forming coalitions with other third party candidates to form slowly
29:50
but surely a party that might begin to challenge the two-party system. But here's where we get into
29:56
the devils in the details. When you start forming alliances and coalitions, what must you do? You
30:01
must prioritize certain issues and neglect other issues. I.e. you must be a politician. And this
30:07
is where our whole, you know, uh, discourse takes place between idealists and between pragmatism. Bottom line, you asked me a blunt question is, uh, are there some inherent dangers allying ourselves
30:18
with the right? Of course there are. And the most obvious one is that the right has a deep
30:23
theological mistrust of us. And frankly they have yet to overcome their uh their racial problems as
30:30
well. Right? So we are brownskinned and we are Muslims. Right? And there's a deep fatedseated
30:36
fear of the other. Because of Israel's genocide, we are very grateful that more and more people
30:43
are realizing that actually the bad guys are not the Arabs and the Muslims. The bad guys
30:49
are the aparttheid regime. And because of the rise of LGBT and immorality, many conservative
30:56
Christians are actually realizing that Muslims and Islamic values are actually in alignment with
31:03
their values. And this has happened in multiple states in Virginia, in Maryland, in Detroit,
31:08
right, where the Muslims took the lead. Yeah. In protecting family values and across the country,
31:15
there was a positive uh reception. In fact, there was so many comments that said, "Maybe
31:21
we misjudge the Muslims. If this is what they're standing for, then we need to support them." So, without a doubt, I think the tide is changing. And Marjorie Taylor Green is actually an amazing uh
31:31
example of this is that she is still somebody who doesn't like Islam and Muslims and she said that
31:39
but credit must be given to her where she actually says that no matter what your faith or religion
31:46
what is happening in in in Gaza is a genocide and we need to stand with people. So I would say given
31:53
that our priority is right now and strategic alliances, political alliances are always
31:59
contextual, I would say we should with wisdom, with caution try to form alliances with people
32:06
that are willing to cooperate with us given that these coalitions are fragile. We should never put
32:13
all of our eggs in one basket and we should never, you know, overestimate uh their uh affinity to us.
32:20
Be wary, be careful. But we don't have much option right now other than to find voices from within
32:27
and especially the MAGA voices. there is a lot of overlap where we can agree to come together for
32:35
the common good and you never know maybe inshallah with our interaction reminds me of the treaty of
32:40
when he says that because the Muslims were able to interact with the non-Muslims peacefully more
32:48
people converted in that one year than had converted in the previous you know basically
32:53
20 years in one year because of the treaty of heria more people converted than in the previous
32:59
you know 20 years. I am optimistic that if the Mecca crowd, if the Republican side calms down
33:08
and allows us to show us, show, you know, show show our true selves as religious, God-fearing
33:14
folks and they interact with us. I'm optimistic that many will actually see the beauty of our faith and even if they don't embrace, they will actually understand that we are not enemies. Now
33:24
having said that obviously there will always going to be red lines and of them I think our biggest red line which we haven't uh discussed right now is Christian Zionism. M the one thing that makes
33:34
America unique in the western world, no other European country has to face what we have to face
33:41
in a very uh fanatical branch of the uh Protestant uh party uh the evangelicals and of course there's
33:51
it's a particular branch amongst them uh that would identify as Christian Zionist right and
33:56
uh even Biden is is is theologically Zionist right I mean That's one of the reasons why he did what
34:03
he did. He would never have done this for any other uh cause. He believes in Zionism deep down
34:09
inside. Now, interestingly enough, this is not universal, you know. So, uh JFK was a Catholic,
34:15
you know, and JFK was definitely not a Zionist. In fact, JFK was not very happy with Israel. And
34:22
one of the last things he was attempting to do before he was assassinated, and rumors swell, is there a connection or not? But let's leave that aside here cuz we don't want to be deemed
34:29
conspiracy theorists. But one of the last things he was trying to do was to get Apac declared as a
34:35
foreign lobbying power. That would have been a gamecher, right? Because if Apac declared
34:40
a foreign lobby because he was like, you're a foreign lobby. Why are we why are we allowing you to be treated as a domestic lobby? Right? And he was rallying from inside to get them declared,
34:49
you know, as a foreign lobbying power. So, uh, another person that was that was anti-Zionist
34:54
was actually the Jimmy Carter. Jimmy Carter, his version of Christianity, he did not agree with
35:00
Christian Zionism at all at all. And so we have to not just label everybody together. We have to realize there are different strands and people uh you know like the very fact that uh Tucker Carlson
35:11
brought an Orthodox uh priest, you know, a nun, excuse me, an Orthodox nun and and that interview
35:18
is a mustwatch for everybody. Amazing. It's amazing. And he allowed her to speak her mind.
35:23
She needs to come and say why are you calling kamas terrorists? I can't say that. You can't say that. She'll get away with it. Right? So the tide is changing. I think we need to be cautiously
35:34
cautiously optimistic that more and more people on the right side will understand that in fact yes
35:41
we're not exactly the same. We do have fundamental disagreements but overall we do overlap on the
35:49
core values of what it means to have a better society in this country and our foreign policy. Yeah, Shakyas, I mean, are we doing enough? However, I I I agree with everything you've
Moral compromises?
35:57
said there about the need to uh build coalitions with the MAGA, right? Because it's it's not only
36:04
uh it's not only merging emerging as a as a as a strongly anti-ionist at least as a strong
36:10
anti-ionist voice within it, but also when it comes to American foreign policy generally,
36:15
the MAGA idea is that uh these uh misadventures in the Muslim world need to stop. So I think I think
36:22
there's a really interesting it's probably one of the most interesting philosophical uh ideas in American foreign and domestic policy since the second world war. So I think we need to
36:32
we certainly need to think about that. However um I yesterday yesterday I spoke to a number of of
36:38
Muslims you know who were around 30 40 of them. We were having a conversation about American
36:43
American Islam and what they said to me is that after 9/11 Muslims they swung to the Democrats.
36:50
Uh but because they didn't have the ideological filters uh in that engagement so many of the young
36:57
Muslims began to embrace progressive values. Is there a danger that we can do the same? We will
37:04
do the same when it comes to the right. Yes, there is. Like I explained, there's no ideal party for us and we have to be mature enough to understand the only way forward is to educate our
37:18
own peoples about the dangers of these alliances even as we ally. And again, I'm not a big fan of
37:25
the armchair critics as you're well aware. You can always criticize, provide an alternative.
37:31
You can always sit in your AC room and log online and say everybody's wrong, everybody's misguided, everybody. provide me an alternative. What do we do realistically and pragmatically? So after 9/11
37:42
when the Republicans started invading, invading, invading, at least the Democrats at that time, you know, they were a bit more open-minded when it came to the domestic Muslim policies,
37:52
right? Foreign policy, there was just a sense of like you couldn't do anything at that time. It was just a hysteria. And when people are hysterical, you cannot reason with them, right? But the
38:02
Democrats were being more sensible when it came to domestic and they clearly separated between,
38:08
you know, uh uh uh people that might cause harm to America versus your average American Muslim. And in that environment, let's not criminalize the past. Let's not I think we're being overly
38:18
harsh on I live through that, you know, I live through that time. What alternative did we have at that point in time? You know, put it hindsight's always 2020. Hindsight's always, oh,
38:29
I wish I had done that, right? But let's go back in time. What would we have done? We didn't know
38:34
the future. We didn't know what's going to happen with we didn't know that at given the reality I
38:39
cut them a bit of even though I wasn't you know anywhere near as active as I am now. I was just
38:45
coming back from Medina. So you know at the time we understood that this is the better choice to make. And again at that time probably it was but that's why I just said politics is all contextual
38:56
and if we have an alliance today we can break tomorrow. our ultimate loyalties is not to any individual you know in this world other than you know obviously the prophet as a theological level
39:05
so I think we need to be stop being so harsh within ourselves like let people have different
39:13
tactics there's no Allah didn't mandate upon us one particular way the Sahabah themselves differed
39:19
about and throughout all of early Islamic history medieval Islamic history you always had different
39:24
ways of revival even now we have so many different movements we talked about this in my previous interview with you. I am not somebody who is a naysayer constantly bemoning the negatives of the
39:34
movements here. What do you gain? Let people have different tactics and let the best tactic win.
39:40
And also realize it is not healthy to put all of our eggs in one basket. So it is actually useful
39:48
for some people to have ties with groups and parties that you know we might not have, you know,
39:53
the best the best view of them, but at least somebody's on the inside over there. So as I said,
39:59
let people find the path that they think is the most beneficial and if they are sincere and if
40:05
they want to benefit the um you will not find me to be overtly critical. Okay. But I want to push
Left and Right
40:11
you a little bit on that because what what you're calling for here if I've understood it is we need
40:16
to have a transactional relationship with these politicians left and right. They have it with us. Why not? Brilliant. Okay. So and and I absolutely agree with that. However, I'm talking more about
40:26
ideological commitments cuz I have met Muslims today who have drunk the the Kool-Aid. They
40:32
believe that Islam is progressive or they believe that Islam is right-wing conservative and they
40:37
what they mean by that is they've almost embraced the ideological convictions of the MAGA right or
40:43
they've embraced the ideological convictions of the progressive left and I think that's a step too far. Like I suppose a question for you is that like from your side, how do you as a as an imam of
40:54
a of a very important community here, how do you ideologically fit the left and the right? What's
41:01
your advice to young Muslims who are engaged in this in these conversations with the left and
41:07
right? So obviously as Muslims our primary ethics and laws, our primary vision of society, it is
41:13
shaped from our texts. Those texts provide us our uh that the contours of what we view are right and
41:21
wrong. That is our ethical life. But we must live our life in a context in an environment. So if
41:29
we ally with a particular group with a particular cause, we the the leaders of the community should
41:35
educate the next generation that hey listen when you're doing so make sure this is a red line you
41:40
don't cross. We cannot be so uh idealistic as to say we cannot get involved with the movement if
41:46
there are some negatives in it. Then you would not get involved anywhere. So both the right and the left have their problems. We will quite literally navigate context space. Sometimes we'll
41:57
have to ally with the right for some causes. Sometimes have to ally with the left for some causes. And there's nothing wrong with that. We are not ideologically wed to any one camp. Both
42:06
camps have pros and cons. Now when you say that uh which ideology is closer to Islam, the right and
42:12
the left again I would say that question is very very ambiguous and open-ended. So what does Islam
42:20
have to say about taxation? Is it the right or the left? Yeah. What does Islam have to say about gun control? I was asked this literally in my like what does Islam say about the second amendment?
42:29
Excuse me. What it's like you expect Islam to have an answer about the second amendment? Allah has allowed us, you know, an ideal Muslim state, you know, gun control would be the purview
42:40
of the people. Allah didn't legislate the second amendment, right? So to assume that there is a
42:46
clearcut, you know, what is the Islamic ruling on I mean again uh uh in terms of of in terms of
42:53
um business freedoms in terms of should we tax businesses differently than what not. The Republicans have a policy and the Democrats have a policy. What does Islam say? Fact of
43:03
the matter is you can make an argument for both of them. Okay. A lot of people again they they really they really don't understand in my opinion the concept of and that is that by and large yes
43:14
there are certain things that are enshrined in the otherwise basically allows the Muslim polity the
43:21
Muslim rulers to have a wide array of tools at their disposal and to decide based on what they
43:27
believe is in the best interest of the community. If that is the case in a Muslim majority land, then what do you think about where we live now? What is Islam's ruling on healthcare? Tell me.
43:37
I'm actually quizzing you. What is Islam's ruling on healthcare? Many people would be shocked when they discover that in the bulk of our history, do you think the average Muslim had, you know,
43:47
Norwegian healthcare given to them for free? It's a it's a and who and who pays for the the people.
43:52
Exactly. when you understand this point right that a lot of people don't they and I want people
43:59
to read history because a lot of times they they they have very idealized notions of the past right
44:05
education did the state pay for education for the masses no I mean sure most states had a few nice
44:13
madrasas here and there but the average end user most states had a bearistan okay the mamluks had
44:19
two three five I don't know how many don't quote me but the average person living in mamluk Egypt,
44:24
the average person if they wanted to see a doctor, they'd either have to go private or they would go
44:31
to a private w that a a wealthy person might have done for the locality of that region for example,
44:36
right? The assumption that Islam has a an answer for healthcare. No. Now, does that mean that
44:42
in the new Islamic land, we cannot have free healthcare? I would argue you can make an easy case, tax the people and have free healthcare. But your question is Islam more aligned with the right
44:52
or the left? in what area for most of these areas as I gave as I already explained to you education
44:57
and health and health and uh taxation actually the Sharia allows you know uh uh delegation
45:04
in this regard can I talk to you about western liberalism when I mean western liberalism I don't mean you know the democrats and the progressives here I'm talking about liberalism as an ideology
Liberalism
45:14
um do you believe there is a fundamental problem with western liberalism or do you believe that
45:21
um Muslim Muslims can um can uh take aspects of liberalism to inform our tradition. So when you
45:31
say liberalism actually completely coincidentally I'm actually teaching a class right now for um a young professional audience. So I'm actually going over uh some writings about about
45:40
liberalism. Uh so when you talk about liberalism you're obviously probably referring primarily to
45:45
uh the social norms that we consider to be liberal norms. And obviously if you're talking about liberalism from a a social perspective, from a cultural perspective, without a doubt,
45:55
liberalism has some uh fundamental, you know, paradigmatic differences from the Islamic
46:02
uh system. And of them, I mean, this isn't just coming from a Muslim critique or background. uh one of the leading uh Christian philosophers of our times, political scientists of our times,
46:11
you know, Alistister McIntyre, he has brilliantly, brilliantly, you know, deconstructed many of the
46:17
claims of liberalism, you know, and he's he demonstrates that one of the core problems out of many things. One of the things he one of the things he says is that liberalism at its essence
46:27
is extremely atomistic and individualistic, right? Whereas faith and community and family are given a
46:37
secondary or tertiary role, liberalism prioritizes the physical desires of the individual over the
46:45
communal welfare even of the family. Right? And uh there are many critiques that can be given.
46:51
Of them is the notion of uh uh moral relativism is that liberalism because there is no higher truth.
46:57
We see this that morality will constantly erode and it's going to erode. It's not going to be
47:03
you know people are not going to be upgraded. Uh liberalism has an inherent uh contradiction where the claim is that it is neutral. Yeah. But there is no neutrality. And uh there's a brilliant uh
47:14
uh um uh I think British is I bank right is a brilliant British philosopher from our times
47:20
also religious coming from a religious background where he's basically saying and of course Talal is is is one of the names that comes to mind. the the notion that the secular is somehow neutral.
47:30
This is a complete myth and we see this over and over again. The secular has to take a theological
47:36
stance, a moral stance in which it ceases to be neutral. Classic example is abortion. The secular
47:43
cannot decide because there are arguments to be made both ways. Another example and I'm assum assuming our audience are all you know adults so I can be explicit here is sexual work,
47:53
sex work. You know the arguments can be made both sides. Liberalism doesn't have cuz you can say
47:58
it's empowering and you can say it's it's you know dehumanizing and debilitating, right? You can say it's exploitation. Okay. The reality of the the the right to offend free speech. We see this over
48:09
and over again. On the one hand, liberalism prides itself on ultimate free speech. On the other hand,
48:14
it is the most prone to the cancellation culture. It's a clear dichotomy between, you know, the the theory and the and the uh lived reality of liberalism. Now, therefore,
48:24
when it comes to cultural liberalism, without a doubt, there are paradigmatic differences between
48:31
Islam and between cultural liberalism. I want to mention the following statements and I want your
Understanding Islam
48:37
your take on on which one of them you think are correct statements to make. Um first statement is
48:44
Islam declined when we stopped abiding by when we left Islam or Muslims declined when we left Islam.
48:50
That's statement number one. Um um statement number two is Islam declined or Muslims declined
48:57
when we stopped progressing. Which one of these statements do you feel are the most appropriate
49:03
statements according to your perspective? Both. I don't see this as an eitheror. In fact, when you
49:08
say Islam declined because we stopped practicing Islam, I would say a part of Islamic civilization
49:14
which is undoubtedly and I'm not being romanticizing of the past in this issue. Yeah.
49:20
Early Muslims were far more open to absorbing ideas and technology than later Muslim generations
49:27
were. Right? So for me the two statements actually are the same uh statement because
49:35
fully understanding Islam means that you will be the best in din and dunya together. There's not
49:41
an eitheror here. And this is I think one of our issues and problems is that uh the movements that
49:48
we have today, they are either generally speaking focused on inner reform, right? Or they're focused
49:56
on outer and you know type of you know philosophy. And I think that this is where the divide is
50:03
taking place. The the the the reality of our faith. Allah subhanana wa ta'ala sent down a
50:09
template of theology, ethics, laws, rituals and a lot of that template was literally left open for
50:18
us to fine-tune from time to place. Right? If we understand this, that template is there. We cannot
50:25
change the template of Allah. But within there's so many areas technology allahel allowed us
50:37
And early Muslims understood this. They absorbed every major technology they could find. In fact,
50:43
they were the ones that excelled. I've given multiple lectures about this. The Muslims discovered the the the art of paper, right? The Chinese didn't understand what paper could do. The
50:52
Chinese were the ones who first invented it. The Muslims saw its potential, right? And they're the
50:57
ones that then mainstream paper across the globe. The same goes the the Sahaba themselves. You know,
51:04
in fact, we can even go back. The prophet himself, he himself when he saw uh the the the new ideas
51:10
that were presented to him, he didn't say, "Oh, they're coming from the kufur. We cannot accept that." Whether it was, you know, the catapult in the incident of the whether it was the digging of
51:18
the moat, in fact, even the norms of diplomacy when uh he wrote his first letter to the uh
51:24
emperor, right? And they said to me Allah, there's a custom those guys have and that is that you have to have a wax seal and you have to have a special ring. That's when he made his ring.
51:33
Right nowadays, we are still debating imitating the kufur and you can't do this and you can't do that. We still have that that that you know knee-jerk reaction of of assuming that absorbing
51:47
uh the areas that Allah has allowed us to absorb from is somehow polluting or diluting our shar.
51:52
So I would say the two statements that you said are essentially the same and that is that Islam
51:58
wants us to perfect the spiritual, perfect our and Islam wants us to build civilizations.
52:09
It's not an either or. Yeah. So I I want to understand the dynamics of that because of course you're you're an Islamic scholar and um um when it comes to absorbing when it comes to
Non-negotiables in fiqh
52:20
progressing when it comes to changing uh potential fick opinions or developing new fk opinions or
52:26
even committing yourself to a new newishad how does uh how do Islamic scholars go about
52:32
doing that? Um is it like uh the Christian clergy who arbitrarily update and upgrade
52:40
uh traditional opinions? So they decide that one day, you know, this opinion is now out of vogue
52:46
abortion or whatever it may be and we're now going to upgrade it to uh and and just by the
52:51
very fact that a holy clergyman says it, it now becomes new Christian law. Or are there um uh uh
53:01
you know mechanisms that Islam uh asks us and ask scholars to adhere to such that the uh the ishiad
53:10
is based on a methodology rather than based on the whim of a particular scholar. No obviously this is
53:15
something that there should be no two opinions about that Allah subhana wa ta'ala has revealed to us a shar in which there are non-negotiables. If there were no non-negotiables then why would
53:26
we need a revelation? If allahel had he wanted he could have said okay there is no do as you please
53:33
then what's the purpose of revealing in fact why would then there even be a revelation without a doubt there are non-negotiables when it comes to theology when it comes to rituals when it comes
53:42
to law when it comes to ethics everybody agrees on this that is a mainstream Muslim uh and then obviously without a doubt there are that which are contextualbased the million dollar
53:53
question or more than a million dollars is how do we decide between the the Arabic term By the way,
53:58
there's a lot of writings on this and I encourage our viewers to who know this to look up these writings. What changes and what is non-negotiable? What is what is non-negotiable and what is right?
54:12
So this is a you know small interview. This is not the time to go into and to talk about the various
54:20
maxims of culture is going to be decisive where the silent one of the five maxims of culture is
54:28
going to decide where the shar is silent. Right? And so many other rulings in which for example
54:34
and others say that half of giving a fatwa is to know the context of the fatwa and the same fatwa can change from culture to culture depending on if it is extrapolated from the as
54:44
obviously if Allah says something zena is always going to be haram there's no two opinions about this right you know is always haram there's no two opinions about this but there are areas of
54:53
the that can change now in this interview we don't have the time to give a detailed class
55:00
So what I will say is given the realities that we live and I jump to pragmatic solutions always
55:08
the end user the listener to the interview has no choice other than to understand there is a
55:14
spectrum and then to pray to Allah and then use the best sincere sincerad they have to situate
55:22
themselves on the spectrum and I don't like to do this but there is no alternative that
55:29
really the question the average Muslim will have to ask is who do I trust? It all goes
55:36
back to which scholar do I trust because there's an entire spectrum and allahel is not asking the
55:43
lay person to become much overnight. So you have two options either you study and you find
55:49
out for yourself and it's not impossible. The beauty of our religion anybody male or female can become a scholar spend 5 10 years 20 years studying no problem right or Allah says
56:02
ask the people of knowledge if you don't know who are the people of knowledge well that's where you are going to have to make a sincere conscientious decision you have to answer to
56:13
Allah that oh Allah I didn't know there was a whole myriad of opinions and I made a sincere
56:19
clear intention that I felt this person or this group of scholars really represented your
56:26
religion in the finer details. You cannot use that excuse about God himself so that a Christian can
56:33
say followed a wrong clergy. No belief in Allah, belief in the messenger, belief in the Quran, you
56:38
have to come to yourself. Nobody can teach you, right? That's your iman. But the finer details,
56:43
there is no alternative other than to choose your framework. Yeah. Can can I Dr. Yas I mean I can
Responsibility of scholars
56:49
I don't usually give my personal views in these interviews but can I can I offer a a a view here which is um there is a feebral atmosphere out there like it or not you know people they snip
57:02
it they take snippets of things that you've said I can tell today from our conversation they're going to take snippets from here and there and they're going to you know that's going to go viral and
57:11
what we'll end up having is we'll end up having conversations about issues which are not really central to our big dilemma as Muslim Gaza for me is a big dilemma. You know, we have these really
57:21
big issues that we have to overcome and um I agree with the point that you've made on a number of
57:27
occasions. And look, Islam is a is a broad tent and we certainly need to have a far more tolerant
57:33
attitude towards one another. Even if it's not for, you know, even if we disagree it for
57:39
the greater good, there are bigger issues that we need to be overcoming at this stage. But however,
57:45
is there a responsibility from people like yourself to be guarded in in the way you you
57:51
speak about some of these controversial issues? Because you know that there are people out there
57:56
who are going to get the wrong end of a stick or maybe even maliciously pick up on a point
58:02
you say here or there and say, "Hey, look, Dr. Yaserki today is a conspiracy theorist or Dr.
58:07
Yasarcardi today believes in liberalism or Dr. Do you know that possibly can be said from some of
58:13
the answers that you've given today? Like do you do you hold yourself not responsible but to a to a
58:20
standard where maybe just maybe you know you have to um you have to you know your language has to be
58:28
somewhat tamed in order to to not feed that that fee social media atmosphere. Yes, you're right.
58:36
uh there is a bigger responsibility on me and I ask Allah subhana wa ta'ala to grant me uh the wisdom the las and foremost and the wisdom uh and I hope inshallah to try to minimize the
58:48
mistakes it is impossible to be perfect in every response uh and uh without a doubt
58:53
there have been lapses that I've made and ask Allah's forgiveness for that I hope in the end of the day that the good that I do before when I leave this world the good that I leave behind is
59:01
much much more than any mistakes and lapses that I've done and I also like to say that I do find it
59:08
uh difficult to live up to this for one simple reason and that is that generally speaking these
59:15
types of you know issues that happen they're in interviews that I'm doing generally speaking the
59:21
prepared talks and lectures that I give they are so what I ask then when you find an interview of
59:29
mine yes you ask me 15 questions off the cuff and I'm answering them off the cuff look at my
59:36
ambiguity in an interview and try to match it up with something explicit in my talks. Yeah,
59:41
I think that's a fair request because in a fiveminut response to your question, I cannot be expected to write every single caveat. Yeah. And I have found all too often
59:52
even if I made a lapse or an ambiguity, there are plenty of lectures that I've given about similar
59:57
topics where you can clearly fill in the gaps and not come to the conclusions. But what happens is,
1:00:03
and again perhaps maybe I shouldn't be ambiguous, but how much can I say? But perhaps also those
1:00:08
that read in before they read in, they should do a little bit of research and not create an entire
1:00:14
straw man argument. Not read in the worst that they can possibly read in. I also think that it's
1:00:19
an impossible task to have to think about every single audience and every single caveat for that
1:00:25
audience when an ambiguous question like yours like to what level should we uh you know uh apply
1:00:31
classical madha based versus modern there is no way full justice can be done but it is a question
1:00:38
that is of relevance to the average Muslim. So how do we then balance? I gave a generic response and
1:00:43
I have no doubt in that generic response you can take a phrase or two and then create an entire straw man but look at the track record that everybody has. I again when it comes to
1:00:55
look the only area where I think I have a little bit of right to make my own go up on a branch is
1:01:01
basically aspects of Islamic theology such as dealing with other groups or or or where ideas
1:01:07
came from. Listen to my library chats. That's my PhD, my masters is my the development of Islamic theology, right? That's my expertise. That's where I feel, listen, I have the right to make a
1:01:16
bit of a claim and prove it up. And if you agree, fine. If not, you don't agree. All other issues, I
1:01:21
consider myself to be well read, but I must follow somebody that I look up to. Yeah. And that's not
1:01:28
an excuse because in the end of the day, I'm not hiding behind them. But it is only fair when
1:01:33
somebody does criticize is that the average lay person is not made even more confused because the
1:01:38
impression that is being given which is completely wrong is that uh myself or others are like forming
1:01:43
a new ord and again the adjectives used I must say there should be an element of fearing Allah
1:01:51
subhana wa ta'ala you can disagree with greater giants than me but they are not destroying the
1:01:56
dean they're not like liberalizing no you can say we think that they're mistaken in these views.
1:02:02
You're creating confusion. I would say, and again, obviously this is not a deflection. I own up to mistakes I made. But don't you think by these types of accusations which are not true, there's
1:02:15
a greater confusion being created unnecessarily, especially when is happening. I find all too often
1:02:21
that a lot of times the people who are worried that I'm causing controversy are the ones who have created the controversy themselves. I'm not saying that I'm not guilty of ambiguous phrases,
1:02:30
but there has to be a balance. And I've said this multiple times. Any sincere critic of mine,
1:02:36
please reach out to me. My email is public. I'm sure every student of knowledge and sheh has somebody that has a direct contact with me. I will genuinely appreciate sincere feedback. But
1:02:47
at the time being, my brother Muhammad, we have far bigger issues than Minutia. And even if you
1:02:54
disagree, say I think he's mistaken and move on to something bigger. Let's come together to stop
1:02:59
the genocide in that's our biggest priority now. Let's come together to save the iman of the next
1:03:05
generations of America. And the iman will be saved when we start preaching Islam in a positive manner
1:03:10
rather than bickering amongst ourselves. And as you explained and as explained as well, look at all of Islamic history. We were never unified in the minutia of uh these aspects. There's always
1:03:23
been diversity. So there will always be diversity. Live and let live as long as we agree on the main
1:03:28
fundamentals. You know, I agree. I I as I think I've said to you before, I I follow and and
Gaza’s position in Islam
1:03:34
listen to most of what you've produced out there. And alhamdulillah, I I find it, you know, very
1:03:40
refreshing. And alhamdulillah, I I I have never got the impression from what I've heard of you
1:03:46
that somehow you're trying to create a new fil and you're, you know, a westerner. quite the opposite
1:03:52
actually. You know, I I the impression I get is is very much that you're you're trying to grapple
1:03:57
with the same issues that we're trying to grapple with from a different perspective, of course, from a scholarly perspective and you know, you're you're addressing your community in the way in
1:04:07
which you feel that community will will be able to move forward with a a strong Islamic identity. So,
1:04:12
I I think that's from my side. I and I can see that on the issue of Gaza as well. you know, I I
1:04:18
have to say that I think you have been and I, you know, my apologies if I'm I'm, you know, speaking
1:04:24
in in in two glowing terms here, but I think you have been very outspoken on Gaza and I I you know,
1:04:30
I I walked into your in on Friday and I was alhamdulillah I was really happy that we're still
1:04:37
talking about Gaza here in Texas in Dallas and and talking about it as a really an important thing.
1:04:44
In fact, that's the last question maybe I want to ask and that is about Gaza. Um, in that you gave,
1:04:50
you said something quite extraordinary. I felt you said that Gaza is actually one of the three most
1:04:59
um uh uh challenging episodes in Islamic history. You place it up there with the Mongol invasion.
1:05:05
You place it up there with the fall of a kilatha, right? So, these are really big seismic impacts on the Umah. like why why have you placed Gaza in in on that level? Yeah. So in the I said that
1:05:16
if you were to ask uh a historian what are the three biggest catastrophes or you know important
1:05:23
incidents that we really like would have taken as setbacks after the time of the after the time
1:05:28
of the obviously we're not talking about the first generation. I I would have said that and again this is relative in the sense different people are going to say different things. I'm
1:05:37
a student of history. I'm not a specialist. I like to read history. In fact, it is the main thing I'm reading these days is actually history because for me, I just love I just uh I feel
1:05:46
that there's so much to benefit from. It really broadens your horizons, makes you more tolerant, makes you more understanding. If you were to ask me, my list of the top three setbacks and
1:05:55
catastrophes would have been after the time of the and the Sahabah. Number one, the Mongol invasion
1:06:00
without a doubt that completely restructured the um number two the uh impact of colonization and
1:06:09
that eventual collapse of the and then number three I would say but each one in a different
1:06:15
reason for a different cause. Uh and I mentioned this in as for the uh collapse of the as for the
1:06:22
uh the invasion of the Mongols, it completely reshaped the Muslim world after the Muslim
1:06:27
world thought that it had gone. It had died. You know, the greatest historian of his generation.
1:06:33
He literally said that the invasion of the Mongols is like an obituary of Islam. Islam is now for me.
1:06:39
The Islamic civilization will never rise up again. He literally thought this going to come. This is the invasion of Majj basically like he thought this is the end you know but subhan Allah from the
1:06:48
ashes of that invasion arose a whole bunch of many superpowers that would not have risen had it not
1:06:55
been for you know the the collapse of the already weak and and free ambassad and then colonization
1:07:01
as well without a doubt subhan allah what a tragedy for the ummah and yet the impact of that
1:07:07
has been a revival of Islamic spirit all of these revivalist movies that we're grappling with all of
1:07:13
them are basically products of that generation beginning with the Dubundi movement which is basically the British you know uh the British takeover of the M Empire and the collapse of M
1:07:21
Empire right the Dubundi movement has done amazing work you know the Salafi movement has done amazing
1:07:26
work in in reviving intellectual sciences of Islam and their revival came again because of the rise of a particular entity that posta you know uh look at again the uh the thewan and the the brotherhood
1:07:37
and the jamaat Islamic movement again directly directly as a result of the the collapse of
1:07:43
These three movements and their subsidiaries are basically the bulk of the um that are doing
1:07:50
revivalist work here. They all have come come about because the political side went down. So the
1:07:56
intellectual and spiritual side rose up here. Now my point in the was the negatives at the time felt
1:08:04
the end but from those negatives Allah subhanana wa ta'ala allowed many positives to come. So my
1:08:11
point was is a negative but inshallah we have our trust in Allah that there shall be a complete
1:08:19
positive. Now why would I put on this list? For very different reasons. Some would say because of
1:08:25
the cost of life and actually no. We lost far more people in the Mongol invasion and even because of
1:08:33
colonization. I mean in France alone, sorry, in Algeria alone, in Algeria alone because of
1:08:39
the the the the French, you know, colonization, more people were brutally killed and massacred, concentration camps and rapes and all that, more people than what we are seeing. That's just in one
1:08:49
country, right, in Algeria. So, and and that and of course, you know, look at India and we can go on and on. So, in terms of sheer numbers, is not at the top. And it's sad to say that because we
1:08:59
think it, you know, no doubt is very painful. But what it shows is, I would say, a sad reality of
1:09:08
how ineffective two billion Muslims are to watch live children dying from starvation and not even
1:09:19
being able to give them food, you know? I mean, that's just very painful as a as a father, as a
1:09:25
parent. I mean, can you imagine? And you're you're literally calling to the cameras, you know, you're
1:09:30
literally the mother, the father says, "Yani, feed us." I can't think of any equivalent in
1:09:36
our history where we're literally seeing children starve and we can't even help them. So impotent
1:09:44
that you want to scream in frustration. 50 plus countries, armies at our disposal. So to me, what
1:09:50
this represents is a a a failure at a level that we haven't seen before. At least when the Mongols
1:09:56
invaded, man, they came with weapons and horses and power. You know what I'm saying? At least the
1:10:02
Muslims tried to fight and they failed until the Mluks did that. You know, what do we say now when
1:10:09
around that country? There are powerful countries and why can we blame them? Here we are as well.
1:10:15
What do we say to that? So to me it demonstrates an impetence and I'm sorry to use a harsh word
1:10:21
here but I don't have any any other word for it right never in our history have we been so
1:10:28
many even a hundred years ago I did my research in this regard to figure out even aundred years
1:10:33
ago the Muslims were less than 10% of the world in the last 100 years we have gone from being 10%
1:10:41
to being one out of four people how can One out of four in the world allow a small little place like
1:10:49
this in live feed to be bombed to the point of no inhabitants there and nothing is happening. So to
1:10:58
me it represents a different type of failure that collectively the ummah has demonstrated that at
1:11:06
least in a civilizational aspect we have failed. And I say this specifically I'm not talking about
1:11:12
spiritually because the um is never going to die spiritually. I'm not talking about intellectually. I'm not talking about many other projects that we're doing. But what Gaza has forced me to do
1:11:22
is to drop all political correctness. All of our Islamist movements. When I say Islamist,
1:11:27
I don't mean political Islam. Islamic revivalist movements, whether they're Sufis, Salafis, Bis, the Obundis, all of them, and even mention the ones that didn't there. All of them have
1:11:38
demonstrated civilizationally they are impotent. And to me that means we messed up somewhere. This
1:11:45
is my point and I mentioned to you in this in last lecture. I don't believe anyone's strand is
1:11:50
the strand that Allah wants us to follow. There's good and bad in all of them. Let's stop bickering
1:11:56
amongst ourselves. Let's understand people are created differently. Some people will want more
1:12:02
spirituality. Others will want more political activism. Others will want more advanced lectures. And so be it. As long as we're all trying to do something good. Stop being judgmental and let's
1:12:13
come together for that. Don't we all agree that we need to feed babies in? Don't we all agree we
1:12:18
need to stop the bombing? Don't we all agree that, you know, in in the lands we live in, Muslims should be allowed to to pray. In fact, so let's stop this hatred amongst ourselves and agree
1:12:28
to disagree in a civil I'm not saying we're the same. People have called me a a relativist. People have called me that you're saying they're all I have never said this. I'm actually excellent.
1:12:37
In your own interview when you mention Shia and Sun was as explicit as can be. I don't agree with
1:12:42
Shiite theology. But what's the point of making them the enemy right now? What's the point of
1:12:49
harassing and intimidating and and riing up the masses? What do I gain? My anger and hatred is not
1:12:54
going to, you know, solve the Sufi the Wendi divide. The attributes of God are not going to be solved in our time frame. So rather than take these issues and create a big controversy
1:13:05
and hatred and confusion just say you know what maybe I don't agree with his view but let's just come together for the greater good and I keep on saying let's have the discussions that need to be
1:13:15
had about advanced things in the right audiences and gatherings right this is what I keep on saying so I would say in my estimation Gaza is a tragedy the likes of which we have not seen in our entire
1:13:28
history and it should give us pause for thought and really make us understand that we have all
1:13:34
failed. Honestly, we have all failed and we ask Allah to forgive us. But in the end of the day,
1:13:40
in that feeling of exasperation, let us channel that to overcompensate in our personal lives. Let
1:13:48
us channel that to reach levels of piety we would not have reached. In fact, quite brutal honesty,
1:13:54
let the sacrifices of inspire you to be better than what you were. And when you do so, guess
1:14:00
what? Gaza has not lost, it has won. Because what has done, it has raised the bar of the
1:14:07
umah. And I want to end on this positive. In my whole life, and I'm entering now my, you know,
1:14:13
50 plus years, subhan Allah, on this earth. And my whole life I have never seen the next generation
1:14:20
more enthused about doing something more you know on a revivalist streak more in tune with the
1:14:29
ummah more curious to ask questions and hear answers than I have seen because of and so
1:14:36
we already see one of the positives which is bluntly the blood of the martyrs of has revived
1:14:45
the spirits of the ummah and it is not they who were trapped it is we who were trapped
1:14:51
even though physically they were behind the 50ft walls I keep on saying their freedoms of the soul has liberated our shackles and has allowed us to see and to actually be
1:15:03
enthused about doing something for the um so my point is indeed don't lose hope in Allah's
1:15:08
mercy I am optimistic that in our lifetimes We will see the fruits of what our brothers
1:15:16
and sisters have had to go through and their sacrifices will actually be one of the causes
1:15:23
of the revival not just of themselves but perhaps of the entirety of the um that is
1:15:28
my hope in Allah subhana wa ta'ala. Thank you so much for your time today. Always a pleasure.
1:15:37
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