Ep 261. - Gaza: Have Muslim Leaders Finally Woken up to Israel? With Sami Hamdi
This week on The Thinking Muslim Podcast, we speak with Sami Hamdi to analyse the latest developments in the Middle East. With Gaza at the heart of events, we ask whether the Muslim world is finally awakening to the reality of the “Greater Israel” project and consider what this could mean for its future. Tune in on our YouTube channel at 6PM UK time today!
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Transcript - This is an AI generated transcript and may not reflect the actual conversation
Introduction
0:00
I don't think America has a policy on Gaza at this moment in time. I think Netanyahu believes that October 7th provided a golden opportunity. Tony Blair may be recruited as
0:09
some sort of governor of Gaza. What if in Texas Ted Cruz loses when Americans realize that Ted Cruz is Israel first instead of America first? I caught up with Sami Hamdi in Chicago as we
0:19
analyze events in the Middle East. We spoke before the most recent imperial plan to take possession
0:24
of Gaza and focus on the fallout from Israel's bombing campaign across the Muslim world. I ask,
0:31
is the Muslim world finally waken up to the greater Israel project? Qatar could withdraw
0:37
its investments from the United States and say to Trump, I'm not giving you the $1.4 trillion and give me back my plane. I mean, the very definition of an Israeli citizen is somebody who lives on
0:47
stolen land. Israel's aim has always been greater Israel. Netanyahu saying we will never recognize a
0:52
Palestinian state. The Epstein files it coincides with a sort of falling in line on the part of
0:57
Donald Trump. Asalam allayikum and welcome back to the thinking Muslim here in Chicago. Thank you
1:05
for having me. Well, I have to come to Chicago now to interview. How how's your stay in? Very good.
1:11
Chicago is one of those uh great cities I think. Yeah. I think you were trying to remark earlier. I'll cause a bit of fitna. You were trying to say it's the best city that you visited in America
1:20
so far. It looks uh at least it has that the aesthetics looks pretty. Just tell it to the New Yorkers. Just a bit louder at the back. They didn't hear. Oh, subhan Allah. Yes. Yeah. Um well,
1:30
look, thank you so much for for joining us today and uh I want to really talk about uh the last
1:36
few months uh and in particular the last month since the uh attack on Doha uh the Hamas attack,
Attack on Doha
1:42
the attack of the Israelis on on Hamas in in Doha. And I want to focus in on whether um that's really
1:49
changed something. I spoke to uh Abdullah Alda a few days ago. I've interviewed him. His interview will come out after yours. And uh he mentioned a really interesting phrase. He said, you know,
1:59
uh he feels that these last few weeks uh will will possibly change the trajectory of the way
2:05
of the calculus of some of the Muslim rulers. Now he wasn't being over uh over optimistic
2:11
but I think he called it the Doha moment you know that that you know we potentially may be
2:17
uh we we may be moving beyond those security arrangements that um or calculations that many
2:24
of the Muslim rulers have had for the last few decades possibly. So I want to really talk about whether the Muslim world has turned over a new leaf. Um especially since these attacks on Doha
2:34
uh and have they realized that Israel does have a hegemonic expansionist agenda when it comes to
2:40
uh the Middle East and u have they changed their perceptions of the United States. Now let's start
2:46
really with the most recent news. Uh Donald Trump has made some really strong statements in the in the last day uh about West Bank expansion, but that's really come after months of doing nothing
2:58
really in relation to this genocide. Um can you comment on whether there is still a coherent
3:06
policy that the Americans have towards Gaza? Um and and whether uh this recent announcement that
3:14
potentially uh Tony Blair may be recruited as some sort of governor of Gaza falls within any form of
3:22
well fought through uh you know understanding of of you know American foreign policy. I think one
3:28
of the things that is worth noting is that when Trump first won his second term and came to power,
3:35
one of the first things he does is he calls for a ceasefire, forces the Israelis into a ceasefire that they don't want, which means Netanyahu ends up going to the White House to try to talk to
3:44
Donald Trump. And then Donald Trump sends Adam to talk directly to Hamas to try to negotiate
3:49
the release of some hostages. the Israelis get upset and end up leaking it in a bid to try to humiliate Trump in front of the other Republicans that are backed by Apac in order to try to suggest
4:00
somewhat that Trump is violating the terms of the agreement between Apac and between a number of the
4:06
members of Congress. Trump ends up moving Adam Bola from the Gaza file to the Afghanistan file
4:12
and the like. And then there's a very interesting phenomenon that takes place later. the Epstein files become something that's talked about across America and it coincides with a sort of falling in
4:22
line on the part of Donald Trump with that which the Israelis would like to see happen in Gaza.
4:27
Having said that, I don't think that necessarily means that the Americans have surrendered all of
4:33
their foreign policy to the Israelis with regards to Gaza. I think that a number of factors are in play. First of all, I think when you look at Marco Rubio, who is intent on trying to present some
4:43
sort of presidential bid in the future, secretary of state, secretary of state at the moment, Marco Rubio believes that most of the donations, most of the donors will come from Zionists. And therefore,
4:52
I think that instead of being a secretary of state for America, he's become a secretary of state for Israel and bringing all of America's force on the Israelis. Almost as if to say,
5:00
if Aden is going to back somebody the next election, let her back me. Let her not back Donald Trump or somebody else. So, I think that a lot of Marco Rubio's statements that he's making
5:08
and the like is with a view of a presidential election and the traditional approach of the
5:14
Republicans in that if you have Israel on board, you potentially can win the presidency later on.
5:19
I think however that what's interesting about the Doha attacks that took place, you're mentioning about US foreign policy, is that the day before the Katar attacks, Kushner and Witkov are in Tel
5:29
Aviv and the talk is that Witkoff is trying to present some sort of new ceasefire plan and the like. Then suddenly the following day we have the kataris who are hit. I think it is plausible that
5:38
the Israelis attack Dha without informing Donald Trump about the attack in a sort of lashing out in
5:45
the sense that the Americans who continue to talk about the prospect of a ceasefire even if they're not pushing it with all of their power. Netanyahu believes that time is not essentially on his side
5:55
and therefore he tried to attack DHA in order to ruin and scupper any negotiations with relation to
6:01
a ceasefire because the DOA tax also coincided with another development which is that the UAE
6:06
had informed the Israelis that any uh annexation of the West Bank would result in a reversal of
6:13
normalization of ties. An Gargash and the UAE were asserting that the way we convinced the Muslim
6:19
world that normalization was something to be accepted. This is the UAE arguing is that we told them we were normalizing to rescue the West Bank. If you go after Gaza, UAE and Israel aims in Gaza
6:29
are perfectly aligned. UAE and and Israel want to see Hamas eliminated from Gaza. Saudi Arabia and
6:34
Israel are perfectly aligned on Gaza. They want to see Hamas eliminated from Gaza. And they want to see a different authority in Gaza itself. and they want to see a dear armed disarmed Palestine.
6:45
But the UAE believes that the West Bank is a very different issue because it puts them in a very awkward situation. The reason I think Trump made the statement that he is categorically against
6:54
the annexation of the West Bank is because I think for the first time there is a joint lobbying effort on the part of the entire Muslim world, whether it's Erdogan, whether it's bin Zed,
7:03
whether it's bin Salman, whether it's the Kataris and beyond. When Trump sat with all of them at the United Nations, they were categorically stating sincerely, albeit for very different interest,
7:12
that Mr. President, this is genuinely a red line. Annexation of the West Bank is really bad, not for Palestine. It's really bad for us publicly. It's really bad for our relations with
7:22
the Americans. And that's why I think that Donald Trump, in the same way that he told Netanyahu, go and burn Gaza and then met King Abdullah the next day and said, "My Riviera plan was just an idea."
7:31
Donald Trump likewise spoke with Netanyahu and then seemed to approve this plan somewhat of Tony Blair going to this authority in Gaza and the like. Then met with those Muslim leaders who
7:41
told him it was a red line and now he's coming out with a different statement saying annexation of the West Bank is completely different. There's not much coherence in Trump's policy in so far as
7:50
what he wants from Gaza. There is a coherence that he doesn't have any idea what he wants from Gaza.
7:56
There is a coherence in that. Trump, unlike Biden, Biden had a very clear idea of what he wanted in
8:02
Gaza. Whatever Israel wants, I do. Whatever Israel needs, I give. If they need a humanitarian pair to
8:08
enable me to send Marines, I'll do a humanitarian pair. If they're struggling to ethnically cleanse northern Gaza, I'll do a humanitarian corridor to help facilitate the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.
8:17
And Harris's memoirs are coming out and saying that Biden, when he saw everybody was becoming pro Palestinian in the base, said, "But I'm a Zionist." With Donald Trump, however,
8:25
it's who gives him the most ideal argument that brings America's best interest. And Trump doesn't
8:30
know where that lies at this particular moment in time. And that's why I think that to your question, does America have a policy on Gaza? I don't think America has a policy on Gaza at
8:39
this moment in time. I don't think Trump has a policy on Gaza. I think that it's about who has the strongest lobby. And I think when it comes to Gaza, the strongest lobby is the Israeli UAE,
8:48
Saudi lobby. When it comes to the West Bank, I think the Israeli lobby is weakening. Over
Donate to Baitulmaal
9:02
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9:08
leading to not only tins or the hundreds of people dying out of malnutrition.
9:13
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9:20
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this small bottle is actually life for those in need.
Epstein files and Trump
9:55
Right. Okay. There's a few threads there. Um, you talked about how Donald Trump fell into line
10:00
uh during this period after the ceasefire which fell apart and and of course then the bloodletting
10:07
became even more intense. Uh, and you mentioned the Epstein files. Is there a connection between the Epstein files and Donald Trump falling into line? I don't want to say that there is a direct
10:17
connection. I want to say that when you look at a graph of the trajectory of Trump's policies with regards to Gaza, there is something very uncanny about the timing of the Epstein files
10:28
and what Trump subsequently does with regards to Gaza and how the narrative of Gaza suddenly
10:33
changes from pushing for a ceasefire from talking to Hamas to suddenly giving a blank check to the
10:38
Israelis in the same way that Biden did with regards to Gaza itself. I know some people have said that the bloodletting has been worse under Donald Trump and the like. Personally,
10:46
I don't think you can compare Biden and Trump with regards to bloodletting because in reality, they both destroyed homes. They both slaughtered. They both bombed people's legs off. They both are
10:55
killing the Palestinian kids. They both are killing the Palestinian women. I think as far as both of them are concerned, it's almost exactly the same. That's my opinion on it. But
Biden and Trump
11:02
the people of Gaza are saying that it's become far more intense, okay, in recent weeks. I mean, maybe that's not a correlation, but they are saying, especially in the last few months, weeks,
11:10
it's been far more intense. But my interpretation of the intensity has less to do with Donald Trump and more to do with the Zionists becoming increasingly aware that they are not having it the
11:20
way that they want with regards to influencing America and with regards to what they want to
11:26
achieve in Gaza. I think the intensity has to do with the idea that when Israel is trying to
11:32
keep Europe in line, UK is recognizing Palestine instead. France is recognizing Palestine instead.
11:37
Spain is recognizing Palestine instead. the flotillas. Now, Italy and Spain sent ships in order to go and rescue their flotillas. That despite attempts to ban boycots of Israel within
11:47
the US itself, the Congress, the bill did not pass and it did not go through. Despite attempts to go and put organizations that are anti-genocide on some sort of terrorist list,
11:57
a court in Michigan rules that American Muslims for Palestine are a legitimate organization, have every right to freedom of expression. A court in Nevada says that on universities it's perfectly
12:07
legitimate to talk about the Palestinian issue. You have this nonprofit killer bill in which the Israelis try to get the Americans to give unilateral power to their allies in America to
12:16
remove the tax exempt status from charities. Instead, we saw Christian churches go to Trump and say, "We don't want to give this unilateral power to the attorney general. You have no right
12:25
to come and intervene in our tax exempt status." I think the Zionists when they're looking at Andrew Cuomo who tried to preach that he was on the side of Israel and we need to stand with the
12:33
Israelis found that that policy made him lose against Manny and political reports two days ago that now Cuomo is no longer talking about the Israelis anymore because he feels it's a political
12:43
liability. I think the Israelis are watching how the world is changing where a Chinese diplomat is talking to an Israeli general who's trying to tell everybody about the quote legitimate cause of
12:54
the Israelis committing genocide and the Chinese diplomat says nobody believes your lies anymore.
12:59
I think Netanyahu is noticing that when he goes and speaks at the United Nations, most of the room
13:04
ends up leaving while he's talking. I think that for the Israelis, I don't think the intensity has
13:09
to do with Donald Trump as much as it has to do with we're finding that the lease that is given
13:15
to us to continue doing this is getting shorter. The leash is getting tighter. We're no longer in
13:21
a position that we used to be. Netanyahu now is coming out saying that we need to establish a self-sufficient economy because the world in his words are listening to the Palestinians and
13:31
to the Chinese and to the Qataris and therefore because of the boycotts we need to now shift our
13:37
economy into a self-sufficiency. I think that what we're seeing fundamentally is the intensity is not
13:43
Donald Trump telling the Israelis go wild. It's the Israelis saying oh my goodness we're running
13:48
out of time. We need to take Gaza. We need to bomb it into oblivion. And I think the Israelis are
13:53
going rabid, which is why they attacked Qatar. In my opinion, there is a possibility. I don't know if it's certain or not. It's possible they didn't let Trump know. They are going that rabid.
14:03
I think the Israelis are going rabid and that's why we're seeing that intensity. It's not because they believe they're in the ascendancy, but rather they believe the world is changing too quickly and
14:11
we need to quickly make our gains before the world shuts in on us. Okay, that's interesting. I mean, most commentators have suggested that Donald Trump at least had some forewarning or at least
Netanyahu’s policy
14:20
the American administration had some forewarning of those Qatar attacks. You suggest otherwise. Um,
14:28
you may want to you may want to address that, but but also uh we've said you've said so far
14:33
that the Americans do not have a coherent policy. Does Netanyahu have a co coherent policy here? On
14:40
the point of Trump, it's not that I'm saying that Trump absolutely did not know, right? It's that the Israelis are capable of acting outside what America allows them to do. Right?
14:52
Israel historically has attacked even American ships. Israel has demonstrated that when it feels
14:58
itself back to the wall, it's ready to burn the world and it's ready even to go against its own ally, the Americans, and then spend money to lobby congressmen in order to try to keep the peace with
15:08
the Americans and ensure there's some sort of alliance with the Israelis. It's not beyond the Israelis to do that. The second point is that Donald Trump is about his son is about to
15:15
open numerous investment projects with the Qataris who've just given him $1.4 trillion in investments
15:20
alongside the Gulf States. Is it plausible and I'm not I don't have an answer for this that
15:26
Trump took $3.4 trillion only to tell the Israelis go and attack the Qataris. Is it plausible that
15:32
the Kataris gave Trump all of this money and Trump would take that money and then say to the Israelis
15:37
go and attack Qatar? For Trump's personality, it's very unlikely that he would do so given that he's somebody who needs that financial assistance, somebody who's celebrating those investments
15:46
and somebody who celebrates those ties with those particular Gulf States. I'm not saying that Trump cares about those Gulf States. I'm saying it is very plausible that the Israelis said,
15:54
"Let's hit quickly and then we'll deal with the fallout later on." If we assume that Trump knew, what is the interest in Trump allowing the Hamas delegation to be hit by the Israelis
16:04
when the only plausible media outcome would be that Trump's is being dictated to by the
16:11
Israelis as a and they want to ruin his ceasefire negotiations. That's not an image Trump wants to give out to the Americans or wants to give out to the Arab world or even beyond. Thirdly,
16:21
American officials are aware what it means if DHA is attacked in such a way. They know
16:26
that it would spark a movement in which people look for alternative security arrangements and the like. It's hard to imagine American officials gathering together with Donald Trump and saying,
16:35
"Mr. President, this is a very good idea. Let's let the Israelis hit DHA because we have some sort of vested interest in it." They would have calculated that it would have sweeping,
16:44
possibly irreparable consequences with regards to what happens. In other words, it's not that I'm saying Trump didn't know. What I'm saying is I don't think it's as clear-cut given that it just
16:54
doesn't make any sense. Like when you look at it either way and you balance the various different interests. I think with Netanyahu and the Israelis there is a very coherent foreign policy. Yeah. The
17:03
Israelis believe that no matter how much mess we make, America will always clean up. No matter how
17:08
much we struggle, America will rebuild our Iron Dome. No matter how much money we lose,
17:14
Americans will give us billions of dollars to look after us. while homes that have been ravaged by
17:20
Hurricane Katrina will remain destroyed because the priority will be Israel over those American
17:26
citizens in Florida. That while Americans wrestle with health care bills and many families going back with healthcare bills, Israel believes that the American government's priority will be to
17:35
give 14 billion in October 2023 to the Israelis over dealing with those healthcare crisis. Israel
17:40
believes that no matter how bad the homelessness crisis gets in Chicago or in Los Angeles and the like, the government of America is Israel first before it's America first. The government Israel
17:50
believes that the amount of lobbying power that it has deployed in America, that $300 million that it
17:57
spends on Apac every year, that Marjorie Taylor Green is saying should now register as a foreign agent. Israel believes we can go wild and we can count on Marco Rubio and the Americans to lobby on
18:08
our behalf to clean up that mess. And that's what I mean by I think Israel has gone rabid, which is why the meeting with Trump that took place was from the Muslim leaders and the Arab leaders
18:16
was reign in the Israelis. It's not that they're against the Israelis. It's rain them in. They've gone wild. They've gone rabid. And they've gone rabbid because you keep letting them go rabid. And
18:25
that's why I think for the Israelis, it's until America tells us to stop. Let's keep bombing seven
18:31
different countries in the region. Let's keep trying to plunge the country into war. There's a sense that we can keep doing it because we have that license to do so. But I think having said
18:40
that, I think in that consistent foreign policy, there are questions being asked by the Israelis themselves. How long can we expect the Americans to keep backing us when we can visibly see that in
18:50
the polls now Israel is unprecedentedly unpopular in America itself and on both sides, on the
18:56
Democrats and on the Republicans. And it remains to be seen. I think the conclusion of the Israelis is we can win back the polls later. Let's just keep going the way we are. The question is how
19:07
long until America loses its patience with that is Netanyahu's plan um greater Israel the idea that
19:15
Israel needs to stretch across the Muslim world and take large swaves of land from Syria from
Israel’s dream
19:22
uh even from Saudi Arabia from countries in the region is that ultimately Israel's plan I think
19:27
that's the dream of every Israeli I mean I mean the very definition of an Israeli citizen is
19:32
somebody who lives on stolen land that's the very definition of an Israeli citizen. Yeah. An Israeli
19:37
citizen is somebody who went to Palestine, found a Palestinian family living there, kicked out
19:44
that Palestinian family, built a house or bought a house that was built on stolen land and then were
19:51
protected by the US UK once upon a time and then by the US and then they established a citizenship
19:56
and they called it the Israeli citizen. The Israel by its very nature as Tom Barak put it,
20:02
Israel doesn't recognize a Sykespico. It's not bound by the Sykespico agreement because Israel
20:08
as it's dreamed about by the Israelis is not within its current borders. It's supposed to
20:13
expand until the chosen people take back what God promised them according to how the Israelis perceive it. Even though when you look more deeply because the Quran also has a version of the story
20:22
as does the Torah as does the New Testament and the Old Testament. God promised them land provided they fulfill a number of conditions and they failed to fulfill those conditions.
20:30
So God did not give them that land. The point that I'm saying is that I think that Israel's aim has always been greater Israel. I don't think that has ever not been the aim. I think when you look
20:39
at these new this new consortium that's buying Tik Tok in which the White House spokesman said, "We're going to force the sale of Tik Tok, but we need to retrain the algorithm first," implying we
20:49
need to make sure that when this Tik Tok launches, it's no longer showing people the reality of
20:54
Palestine that's making Americans change their opinion. It's no longer showing them the death and killing that's happening in Palestine. It's showing them that sanitized Israeli propaganda
21:02
and the like. There was an interview with one of the members of the consortium in which he says, "What do you what does Israel mean to you?" And he says, "Israel is the establishment of a state
21:11
for a stateless people that we should have and we're entitled to and the like." In other words, every Israeli by definition dreams of a greater Israel. I think Netanyahu believes that October
21:22
7th provided a golden opportunity to provide some cover for establishing that greater Israel. But
21:27
he came across two problems. The first problem is despite the military superiority, it's been two
21:34
years and he hasn't been able to take Gaza. That's a military failure. He's militarily incapable of taking Gaza. The second failure is he underestimated the impact of what the carnage in
21:44
Gaza would cause on public opinion in America because Israel can't survive without colonial
21:50
power. Israel was established with the help of the British Empire. When the British Empire collapsed, they substituted the British Empire for the US. And it's the US that provides the weapon and the
21:57
finances for Israel to be able to launch its wars. The Israelis underestimated the impact of that carnage and the visual display of that carnage on social media on American public opinion to
22:07
such an extent that now you have Axio reporting that Congress in an unprecedented manner is now
22:13
wavering in its support for the Israelis. You now have Marjorie Taylor Green pulling bills from Congress that are supposed to be in support of Israel. You have for the first time ever the
22:21
progressive caucus and the Democrats in Congress now voting to stop the sale of weapons to the
22:26
Israelis. You now have Donald Trump coming in and publicly saying, "We reject the annexation of the West Bank." These are all things I think that the Israelis underestimated. Yeah. Assalamu alaykum.
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Qatar’s calculation
23:18
Yeah. C can I ask you about Qatar? Um because uh the you suggested that the Qataris were
23:26
were obviously were taken back by this um uh the bombing on on on Doha. Uh but their calculation so
23:34
far has been to pate the Americans. You know, give them a give them an air base. Uh ply them with
23:41
lots and lots of money. uh this airliner that you know was promised a a few months back. Um
23:48
uh that calculation seems to have terribly failed here. Um what's your comment on on sort of the
23:55
Qatari position visa v the uh the Americans and Israel? So first of all I want to say u that
24:06
uh you asked me a question about the kataris last time and I said they paid Jizian and they got really upset. Yes. And in this question now, you've basically said, Sammy,
24:13
I'm going to make sure you don't go to DHA. But in any case, I think that the Kataris had no choice
24:18
but to the Americans, right? I think there are two questions to ask about the Israeli bombing. One,
24:23
which airspace did they use to get to DHA? That in itself is a question mark to be put because
24:29
if they went through the Saudi airspace, then it implies that the Saudis were happy to see Israel hit the Kataris. and Ben man issued an unusually very strong statement in support of the Kataris
24:39
almost as if it could be construed as support for could equally be construed as wall it wasn't me
24:45
you know a sort of guilt wall as opposed to etc. The second question that is worth asking is what
24:51
could the Qataris viably do? The point of the Elid American military base is to protect the Kataris
24:57
from such attacks. That failed to do so. Meaning that the interpretation of the Americans is that that base is not designed to protect the Kataris from the Israelis. It's only designed to protect
25:06
the Karis from the Saudis. Which is the very reason why Alid was established. was established to pres prevent a Saudi invasion in 1996 when the son Amir toppled his father the Amir and
25:16
the Saudis wanted to restore the father Amir and Katar and the son said I don't want my father to come back I'll bring normalize with the Israelis I'll bring the American ordained base just don't
25:24
let the Saudis invade me and the like so it could be that the kataris realized that u was never designed to protect from the Israelis it was only designed to protect katar from the Saudis the
25:34
third point worth noting is what could the kataris viably do I think that from the katar perspective
25:39
the UAE position was because Muhammad bin Z didn't attend the summit that the Kataris organized the
25:44
emergency summit to do a joint stunt. Bin Zay didn't attend. Bin Zed only went to visit quickly and then he went back the same day. Almost as if just to give plausible deniability. The Kataris
25:53
are aware I think that the UAE said the Israelis you had one job. How did you miss? So almost if
25:58
the UEE were like this is a good development but you know the Israelis messed up. They're not as
26:04
clever as they thought they were. The Kataris are aware that the Saudis are pursuing their own normalization of ties as it is with the Israelis at this moment in time and the Saudis still have
26:13
a sore spot when it comes to Qatar over what happened during the blockade and over the Arab Spring etc. Although the relations are getting better, the distrust is still there. The Qataris
26:22
are aware that other regional states don't want to get involved in any beef with the Israelis. The Kuwaitis don't and the Bahinis most certainly do not. The Moroccans don't. Tunisia, they don't
26:31
want to get in into beef. Although they received the flotilla when the Israelis hit the flotilla,
26:36
the Tunisian president said, "I don't want to." It wasn't Israelis. It wasn't Israelis. It was just something that happened on the boat itself. So the Kataris in terms of a united front that's
26:45
impossible to achieve with the Muslim world given that so many want good ties with Americans and the Israelis. Can they find an alternative security structure? The Chinese have no interest whatsoever
26:56
in developing an alternative security framework to the United States. Chinese have no interest in
27:02
protecting Saudi Arabia's oil fields and the like. They're not interested in assuming that role for themselves. That's just not how the Chinese see themselves. The Russians don't have the capability
27:11
of doing so either. So Qatar has no alternative to that US American security structure. The Turkish
27:18
military base was there but failed to prevent the attacks on the Israelis. Although some reports indicate that the Turks gave the Kataris a heads up, but it does show the limitations of Turkish
27:26
technology in protecting the Qataris from an attack like the Israelis. Meaning that even if they wanted to expand the Turkish military capabilities as an alternative to the security
27:35
arrangement with the US, Turkey does not have or Turkey does not have the ability in order to provide it. So we've cleared all of those possible alternatives. They simply don't exist. Qatar
27:48
could withdraw its investments from the United States and say to Trump, I'm not giving you the $1.4 trillion and give me back my plane. At which point, Trump could possibly say to the Saudis and
27:56
UAE, run wild on Qatar. And without the support of Alqatar is swallowed up by the Saudis in UAE very
28:03
easily. So they can't tell Trump, give me back the investments. They can't say to Trump, we want
28:09
to revise all security agreements because there's no place to go. And I saw that CNN interview with
28:14
the Katari Prime Minister Muhammad Abdi. The irony of the interview is even the presenter can sense
28:21
that Katar is trapped because he spends the first 15 minutes saying that Netanyahu is a bully and
28:27
Israel is a bully. And then the presenter says but what about the US? Surely the US must have greenlighted. And he immediately panicked and went US had nothing to do with this. US told us they
28:35
had nothing to do with And then he got on a plane, flew to the White House, flew to Washington, and affirmed that ties with the US remain very strong and we're expanding our security cooperation.
28:45
In fact, he even went so far as when Axios reported that KQatar is reviewing all security
28:52
arrangements, the Katar Ministry of Information on its official Twitter account came out and said, "We categorically deny the outrageous claims made by Axios that we are revising any security
29:02
agreement with the United States." I think the when they got hit by the Israelis, they realized just how vulnerable they actually are. And in that vulnerability, the best they could do was
29:12
host some sort of summit where everybody could let off some steam and have a PR exercise. Israel is
29:18
a bully power and the like. But the summit was so weak and intentionally so that when Reuters
29:25
reported on the summit, they wrote that the conclusion was Israel's activities threatens
29:31
progress towards normalization or hinders efforts to normalize ties. It wasn't we reject what Israel
29:36
did. It's Israel, please stop. We're trying to normalize, but you make it really hard when you go and hit and attack Dha and the like. And I think that's the reality of the small state politics.
29:45
Katar has no options but to swallow the hit that it took in DHA and go to the Americans
29:50
and try to convince Trump that this is not in its interest that this is not in the personal interest
29:57
of Donald Trump. Having said that, this angle of Trump's personal interest is something the Qataris
30:04
have always sought to play on. Whether it's buying Trump's hotels, giving him personal gifts, that plane that was given was not given to the presidency of the United States. It was given to
30:12
Trump personally. There is a view amongst the Gulf states that Trump and Israel are not synonymous
30:19
with one another. That if you can buy a personal relationship with Donald Trump, then you might be able to pressure the Israelis and the like. The final point worth mentioning here is this. The
30:28
Qataris even if they have limited options are very much satisfied by the wider implications of that
30:35
attack on on the attack on DHA that you mentioned Abd said it's a turning moment. I don't think it's
30:40
that much of a turning moment. But certainly what the attacks on DHA did was is that it further made
30:47
it difficult for Israelis for Israel's allies to defend it. I think it accelerated recognition of
30:52
Palestine. I think it it accelerated the desire by Israel's allies to create further distance
30:58
with the Israelis in order for them to keep up the pretense of keeping up international law. I think the Israelis are increasing making themselves a pariah state. So I think the will say even if we
31:07
can't do anything with the Americans, we'll take the damage, the reputational damage that it did to the Israelis and we'll consider that a win. Okay. So you say it's not a a turning point. Um
31:18
Saudi Arabia and Pakistan recently signed uh this defense pact, a NATO style defense pact, no least.
31:24
And um it's not a NATO style defense pack, but go ahead. And uh you know that that's how it's
Saudi and Pakistan Agreement
31:29
touted and you know the the argument goes that both sides will protect one another uh in in case
31:35
of uh of you know enmity and and and war with with third parties. Um uh a number of commentators have
31:45
presented this as an act of deterrence especially from the perspective of the Saudis in relation
31:51
to in in uh proximity to uh to Israel. And it comes straight after the Doha attacks. I mean,
31:58
is there a connection between the Doha attacks and Saudi A and this agreement? And what do you
32:04
think is the worthiness of this agreement? I don't think necess I think the timing of the agreement
32:09
was too fast for it to be a reaction to the DHA attacks. Military agreements are not signed within the space of two three weeks. They're signed over a group of months. Which means this discussion has
32:17
been ongoing since even before the DHA attacks. That's the first point. The second point is that when the Saudis themselves were hit by the Houthi missiles and the Americans failed to protect the
32:28
Saudis from Iran when Iran filed missiles through its militias in Iraq and in the Houthis and the
32:33
Patriot missiles, Saudi Arabia did not pursue any alternative security infrastructure. Instead,
32:38
they reinforced their ties with the Americans and affirmed the security apparatus. I think
32:43
this particular Pakistan Saudi agreement is to achieve something else entirely. I think that the Saudis want closer ties with the Chinese, but the Americans have been bullying them into avoiding
32:54
any ties with the Chinese. For example, the UAE signed a number of technological agreements with
33:00
the Chinese, including a military hardware. The US responded by putting the UAE on the grrey list
33:06
of money laundering, meaning companies suddenly hesitated about their status in Dubai and in Abu Dhabi and even considered relocating because they didn't want to fall foul of any potential incoming
33:16
sanctions and the like. The UAE then cancelled a number of agreements with the Chinese and the US responded by removing UAE from the grrey list of the moneyaundering. Essentially saying to the UAE,
33:25
you don't have the choice of being multipolar here. You're either with us or you are against us. and the UAE chose to be closer to the US and try to find more underhanded ways in order to be
33:35
closer to the Chinese. And this is the context that I think the Saudi and Pakistan agreement has come about. I think the Saudis noticed that when those Pakistani planes or Chinese planes downed
33:45
those Indian jets in that confrontation that took place and when it the reports came out that the
33:50
Indian pilots did not even see the attacks coming that those Chinese jets could see those Indian
33:56
planes on their radar long before the Indian planes were able to do so. I think the Saudis are
34:01
saying how can I access that Chinese technology without upsetting the United States. And that's
34:06
why I think for them to make a deal with Pakistan and then say it's some sort of Islamic security pack and then use that deal to access Chinese military hardware that the Pakistani army already
34:16
has a whole host of. It's Saudi Arabia saying look I'm not making a deal with the Chinese like
34:22
don't don't come after me. Don't put sanctions on me. Don't threaten me. Don't ruin my vision 2030.
34:27
I'm not going to this is just a brotherly security pact and the like. While he tells the Pakistanis, yo, give me a Chinese jet. Let me have a look. Yo, give me a a Chinese weapon. And the Pakistanis
34:38
know how risky this is. The Pakistanis right now are in a booming relationship with the United
34:43
States. Asam is standing next to Donald Trump. Protocol doesn't dictate. Protocol doesn't allow
34:48
a US president to stand with somebody like Assam Munir. It should be with Shabb Sharif or with the president. But is enjoying this boom in the United States and enjoying the celebration in the
34:59
media that Pakistan and America are now becoming good friends again because as Trump and Modi's
35:05
relationship deteriorates because Modi refused to be bullied by Donald Trump when Trump imposed the tariffs. Modi said if that's how you're going to treat me, I'm just going to go and stand with
35:14
Russia and Ging in the Shanghai corporation council. The Pakistanis are saying this is excellent. We and the Americans are becoming on very good ties. The problem is that for all the
35:23
good ties with the Americans, there's not enough money coming into Pakistan. And Munir needs money in order to produce something for the Pakistani people to forget about Imran Khan, to forget about
35:32
the troubles of Pakistan. He needs that money. But that money is not coming so quickly from the Americans. As knows that if he gives any Chinese weapons to the Saudis and the Americans find out,
35:43
the Americans could very quickly flip. Instead of becoming close to the relationship, that relationship could deteriorate rapidly. The Americans could say, "How dare you? How dare you
35:52
try to hoodwink me with this deal and bring those weapons going through." So even for the Pakistanis, it's very risky to sign this agreement with Saudi when bin Salman is conditioning the
36:01
financial aid on receiving those Chinese weapons. Which is why this security pack, if you think
36:07
about it, it's not designed for Pakistan to protect Saudi Arabia. Is Pakistan going to go to war with Iran when the Houthies fire another missile at Saudi Arabia? No. Is Pakistan going
36:16
to bomb San when the Houthis fire a missile? Oh, is Pakistan going to bomb the pro Iran militias
36:22
in Iraq if they fire another missile at the Royal Palace the way they did in 2019? No. So, it's clearly not a security pact. It's clearly not designed on the basis of Pakistan protecting Saudi
36:32
Arabia. It's designed in that bin Salman says, "I want Chinese weapons. Okay, but we don't want
36:38
to offend the Americans, but you need money." That's true. Give me the weapons. I'll give
36:44
you the money. But how do we do it without the Americans finding out? And it's it will be very
36:49
interesting to see how Washington reacts if there is some sort of exchange money to Pakistan in
36:55
exchange for those Chinese. This is a very risky move for both Pakistan and for both Saudi Arabia. But they're both desperate for it because Saudi Arabia believes and this is where DHA comes in.
37:04
Yeah, Saudi Arabia believes if US weapons are no longer the most advanced, if they are useless in
37:10
protecting, if they are useless in protecting Saudi Arabia from Houthi drones, then let me go
37:15
to the Chinese who just did a military parade of all of this advanced military hardware and I need it. I I can't rely on these Americans no more. Not because I don't think the Americans will protect
37:24
me. Their weapons are just not as good as they used to be, but they won't let me access it. And I think that's what this security deal is about. That's what the security pact is about. It's money
37:31
in exchange for military hardware, but trying to do so in a way where the Americans do not sanction or do not find any reason or excuse to punish both countries for going behind its back. Right. So,
37:42
you don't really think it's a it's a substantial agreement in in any in any sort of military sense really the Saudis have got and and you you certainly don't think that the Israelis
37:52
uh and their actions in Doha had anything to do with uh this agreement. I I think that it
37:59
gave a good PR cover for a deal that had nothing to do with DHA, right? I think also Saudi does
38:10
not have a problem with Israel. The assumption of your question is that Saudi is scared of Israel. It's not it's it's on good terms with Israel. It doesn't think that it's next. Saudi Arabia does
38:20
not believe that it's next. Saudi Arabia believes that it's shown so much goodwill to the Israelis.
38:25
Saudi believes that when the Muslim world put pressure on Saudi Arabia to do something for
38:30
Philstine, bin Salman thinks he was a genius when he sent to give dua in the haram and everyone went
38:37
and said that's sufficient for us while the entire Saudi media apparatus alat etc. If you open it,
38:45
if you if whoever is listening to this podcast, if you open Arabia now, English and Arabic,
38:51
you would think it's broadcasting from Tel Aviv, they are broadcasting anti-Palestinian propaganda.
38:56
Bin Salman is saying, "My whole media apparatus is still on your side." Bin Salman is saying to the Israelis, I know you're not going to come for me because the billions of dollars I gave to Jared
39:05
Kushner in which I gave him express permission to visit the Israelis, none of that money has been withdrawn from the Israelis in Silicon Valley here in the US where we're talking. Most of the money
39:15
that or a significant proportion of the money invested in Zionist companies are coming from
39:20
Saudi Arabia and from the fund from vision 2030. The Al the Israeli airline daily is flying to
39:27
Dubai. If you opened your phone now, flight radar, you'll find that today the flight from Tel Aviv to
39:32
Dubai went over Saudi Arabia, Saudi Arabia hasn't even closed its airspace, you'll find that the
39:37
land bridge from UAE to Israel that goes through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Arab is still in action.
39:42
Nobody stopped that that land bridge from going. It's not that Israel doesn't want to go after
39:47
Saudi Arabia. Bin Salman believes he's done he's shown so much goodwill during this genocide to
39:53
the Israelis. Why on earth would they come after me? Bins Salman's pursuit of Chinese weapons has
39:58
nothing to do with protecting from the Israelis. Bin Salman wants Saudi Arabia to be a major power.
40:03
And he believes that I want to build my cities to look like Miami. But I want the best weaponry. I want the best technology. I and I want to get it from the Chinese because they're clearly the
40:12
Ford CEO, American Ford CEO just a few months ago told the audience that if Ford does not produce
40:20
an answer to the EV cars coming out of China, his words, not mine, Ford will become bankrupt.
40:26
Everybody is looking at those Chinese car. I went to Kazakhstan. I know it's an anecdote in his bad form. I went to Kazakhstan. You see all these Chinese cars on the streets. I promise you, Jalen,
40:34
they look nicer than the Tesla. They drive better than the Tesla. The technology is incredible. China is no longer a poor quality product. It's it's a high-tech product product. The Americans
40:45
are trying to use brute force to prevent their allies from making closer ties with the Chinese. Which is why Trump tried to bully India. But India literally looked at Trump and said, "Okay,
40:54
if that's how you're going to treat me, I'm going to go to China." The Saudis are saying, "I'm not quite as brave as Modi is. I want to do it through a a hidden way. I want to do through this Pakistan
41:03
security pack." But the idea that Saudi is worried that Israel is going to take large chunks of Saudi Arabia. Saudi is partnering up with Israel in order to try to achieve its domestic aims. It's
41:14
partnered with the Israeli lobby to get support for vision 2030. It's partnered with the Israelis in Gaza. It's partnered in it has common aims. When you look at Saudi commentators on Arabia,
41:24
they all say that the war ends when the hostages are released. Israel is not even saying that anymore. Saudi commentators are saying that this end that Hamas needs to be disarmed. It's exactly
41:34
the same what the Israelis are saying. This idea of a international authority being put in Gaza,
41:39
it's being pushed by Saudi media. You you implied when you said Tony Blair, the person listening
41:45
thinks it's a foreign plan from the US and the Zionists. It's discussed with Saudi and the UAE. They're on board with it in entirely completely. And that's why I think that this security pack,
41:54
what the DHA attacks allowed bin Salman to do, they allowed bin Salman to claim that
42:00
it's directed at the Israelis. And that works very well for the PR. But I don't think Saudi is as scared of the Israelis as it should be. And I don't think bin Salman appreciates the threat
42:09
that the Israelis pose to him in that he believes that appeasement will get him the privileges that Qatar got when it appeased the Israelis, that UAE got when it appeased the Israelis. But Israel is
42:18
different now. Israel believes this is not a the generation where we need to play politics anymore. Is this is a generation where Israel can bomb seven Muslim countries without any response
42:28
and count on the US veto to protect them from any repercussions. How about uh the Turkish Egyptian
Turkey and Egypt
42:34
uh joint naval exercise in the Mediterranean uh first in 13 years. I mean these two countries were
42:41
hostile towards one another a few years ago. Um again um commentators have suggested that
42:47
this was a a message that uh the two uh countries were sending to Israel. Do you buy that or do you
42:54
think there's other reasons behind it? I think it is very plausible that the intention was to
42:59
send a message to the Israelis. CC is under heavy pressure. CC is under pressure from the UAE and
43:05
from the Israelis to open the border and take in the Palestinians into the Sinai Peninsula.
43:10
Cece believes the moment he opens that border, the Palestinians come into Sinai, the Israelis will invade Sinai and take it and the Americans and UAE will support the Israelis against Egypt.
43:20
UAE has been trying to give money to Egypt in order to let them take in the refugees and the Egyptians are saying we don't want them in here. We're not having the Palestinians in here. We're
43:28
not letting him take Sinai. The perception of the threat is such that there has been a buildup of
43:34
the Egyptian forces on the Sinai Peninsula in such a manner that Netanyahu went to the White House
43:40
to complain to Donald Trump that the Egyptians are developing their forces on the Sinai. Can you tell
43:45
them to back off so I can push the Palestinians in there? CeCe when he looks to Saudi Arabia
43:50
finds no support. When he looks to the UAE, he finds no support. When he looks everywhere,
43:56
he's I'm isolated. He feels isolated and he feels like he's being bullied. Even when people protest
44:02
in the Egyptian embassy, the reason Egyptians felt so hard done by is they said, "Okay, I get it if you call me a traitor, but why aren't you doing it to the Saudi embassy? Why don't you do it to
44:10
the UAE embassy?" And then CC, in order to try to bring some peace, he negotiated with the British. They released Abd from prison recently in exchange for greater security in the Egyptian embassies to
44:20
avoid that humiliation. So Cece now finds himself turning to Erdogan to say to Erdogan, "Listen,
44:27
I'm stuck. Like I know you came to me before and you begged me and I gave you a hard time in the
44:32
reconciliation. Times have changed. Now I'm going to you like help me out." Erdogan relishes the
44:38
opportunity to after having been criticized for continuing trading with the Israelis to be seen
44:44
as showing some muscle against the Israelis. So he welcomes this opportunity to do drills on the
44:50
Mediterranean to suggest that there is an Egyptian Turkish military alliance that is emerging. It's
44:56
designed to send a message that there is a possibility of a changing shift in the region. But I think it's also significant that that the Turkish and Egyptian ships during those military
45:05
exercises did nothing about the Sumud flotilla indicating they said our message is limited. Our
45:10
message is Israel like the way it is now is fine but don't push it too much in the Sinai Peninsula.
45:16
We're not going to offend you by going to support the flotillaa. Erdogan, you remember refused to allow the flotillaa to depart from Istanbul because he didn't want the headache coming from
45:24
the Israelis later on. But I think that Cece's desperation is certainly opening doors with the Turks. The question is how ambitious are the Turks in taking that relationship. We know that Haftar
45:34
is sending a delegation to Istanbul as a goodwill gesture from the Turks to the Egyptians to say,
45:39
"I'm no longer on one side of the Libyan field. I'm not supporting Tripoli. I'm now opening up
45:44
the fronts and I'm I'm moving away from the ideological and let's talk about how we can both benefit from Libya, something the Egyptians welcome. I think it's more the it depends on
45:53
the how ambitious the Turks are and just how desperate CC is, particularly given that can
46:01
he see an Egypt that doesn't rely on the UAE? I don't know how wild CC can dream. Um do you
46:07
think that Turkey feels threatened by Israel at the moment? I think most certainly Turkey feels
Turkey threatened?
46:13
that after DHA it's possible Ankara could get hit and could get hit which is why there's news
46:19
apparently that Erdogan wants to build some bunkers underneath and the like but what is worth noting about Turkey is that Turkey is not or Turkey before the Turks get really upset and put
46:28
in the comments and say whatever etc. Turkey has always believed that it will get to a stage where
46:35
Israel is going to attack it. Erdugan knew it from the moment he took power. He's going to get to a stage where the tur where the Israelis are going to attack him. That's the whole reasoning
46:44
behind the whole bayas building their own ships, building the Akenji, building their own planes,
46:49
build the the Turks are desperate to build their own weapons that can compete. The reason they're
46:56
desperate to do so is not because they want to compete with the Americans militarily. They know a
47:01
time is going to come when the Israelis are going to attack Turkey with the support of the Americans or at least with America standing out. So the Turks are like, "Okay, let me buy time." That's
47:11
the whole reason why I think Erdogan is trading during the genocide. While Erdogan believes this
47:16
is not the right time. I still need a few years. I need a few years to build the army. You agree with that? I believe that's Erdogan's ideal dream. I even believe that with what's happened in Syria,
47:26
Erdogan, bear in mind Erdogan is well versed in in Muslim history. I think with what happened in Syria, Erdogan got very excited. Erdogan says this is fantastic because Syria,
47:35
the world is saying Syria is free, but in reality, Syria is free but reliant on me. Therefore,
47:44
not only is Erdogan in a position to build now a Turkish army, Erdugan is the one who's going to build the Syrian army. Erdogan is the one who's going to now be able to access an additional
47:54
army on top of it. Which is why the Israelis are screaming at Donald Trump. Bear in mind Jal Netanyao has visited the White House all like four or five times this year. It's unprecedented.
48:04
The reason he keeps coming to the White House is there are problems that he's struggling to fix over the phone. When he goes to Trump and he tells Trump, Trump, you don't understand. Erdogan
48:13
dreams of destroying us. Erdogan in Syria is the prime beneficiary. Trump is saying, "But hang on a second. He's keeping the peace. He's doing the security for us. He's a NATO ally.
48:22
I like him. The guy knows how to rig elections." According to what Trump said yesterday, he likes those strong men and the like. Although I don't believe that Erdogan rigged the elections in
48:30
the way that Trump implies. But in any case, the point that I'm saying is Erdogan is in a position
48:36
whereby I won in Syria. That's his perception. I won. You know when Trump said Turkey achieved in
48:41
Syria what no one achieved for thousand years. Because according to Trump, Sh doesn't survive
48:46
without Turkey. And he's probably right. He would not have survived so long without Turkey. This is Erdugan who made a bet on Ahmed and he won that bet. Now Syria is naturally inclined towards
48:59
Turkey. If Erdugan builds the army in Turkey and then builds an army in Syria, are you telling me
49:04
that Erdogan builds both armies and then says, "Let's make peace with Israel and let's all live happily ever after." Do you believe that? Jaled, do you think Erdogan says, what does Erdogan
49:13
think instead? He thinks Egypt next. Why? because historically that's the way he thinks Egypt, which
49:19
is why he welcomes the drills. He's thinking, "Oh my god, it's it's starting to pan out. Turkey,
49:24
Syria, Libya now, Egypt now doing drills with me and alienated from the UAE and alien be increasing
49:30
alien from Saudi Arabia. If I can convince CC or at least the Egyptian army that they should join this triumvirate of Syria, Turkey, and Egypt, this is why the Israelis bomb the living daylights out
49:41
of Syria. They know what's coming next. They've read history. Zionists don't view the Muslim
49:46
Ummah within the borders that Sykes Pico impose on us. Israel views the ummah as a united um Israel,
49:54
the Zionists, they view the um of the prophet Muhammad as an um of the prophet Muhammad.
49:59
The Muslims don't. Muslims view it as Syria, as Lebanon, as Tunisia, as Egypt, as and the like.
50:04
You know, I'm in America trying to talk about Syria and raise some awareness on it. And you talk to audiences and it's almost like you're talking about some foreign, you know, abstract
50:12
concept. you know in the mass they learn about you know hem and they're like you know for the Muslims
50:17
but when you tell them Syria okay but you know we have other priorities doesn't see a disconnect
50:23
between Syria and Gaza it sees no border it knows what happens in Syria is going to affect Gaza what
50:28
happens in Syria is going to affect Philstine what happens between Turkey and Syria is going to affect Philstine what happens Syria Lebanon and Turkey affects Philstine what happens Turkey
50:36
they don't see Zionist don't see the borders which is why Tom Barak said something almost omatic when he said Israel doesn't recognize the Sykes Pico he nobody does but the reason why I'm
50:46
saying this is I think that Erdogan his issue with the genocide albeit it's a horrible position that
50:52
he's taken and anybody can go thinking Muslim and and they listen to the what I've said in the past
50:57
Erdogan's stance is not bin Salman's position is I hope Israel gets what it wants in Gaza I
51:04
want Hamas ruin I think when it comes to the UAE their aims they want Israel to succeed in Gaza
51:10
they looked at Dhan they said Why didn't they know the time for Assar? You know, if they had known, they could have waited. They could have, you know, they had one job and they flopped miserably. But I
51:17
think Erdogan's position is different. Erdogan's position is why does it have to happen now? I've built that bacter I just need more time. I just need a bit more time and then I'll be ready. This
51:28
Erdogan's position is this happened too soon. And that's why he's trying to play that balance. How
51:33
do I preserve what I've built without risking it all on something that, you know, can be resolved
51:40
differently? That's not a justification for Erdogan. I'm saying that the because the premise is different, they will produce very different results. Right. No. Okay. So, by time um on on
Al-Sharaa and Israel
51:50
that subject, you're here in America. You're you're doing the rounds. You're talking about Syria. You're working with a Syrian group. Ahmed Ashara was in uh in in in uh New York, of course.
52:01
He addressed the general assembly for the first time and he met with US officials. Um and uh there
52:09
is a he he gave a talk with General Petraeus which a lot of people found uh slightly problematic or
52:15
quite problematic. Um do you think that we had a whole show on this of course and we talked about
52:20
how Syria is in a very precarious position and what else can he do? He needs to buy time and
52:26
he needs to uh create some sort of space between himself and and the designs of the Israelis. Um,
52:33
from where you're sitting now, do you think the same about Syria and Ahmed Ashara? And,
52:40
um, do you feel that the Israelis are finding ways and means to undermine him uh, despite what the
52:47
Americans say about him? I think that in general, Muslims and Israelis are aligned in terms of their
52:55
criticism of Ahmed. The Israelis insist that he's lying and the Muslims insist that he's lying.
53:02
The Israelis insist that he's lying in that he wants peace. He doesn't. He wants 5 10 years
53:09
to rebuild Syria and then put his hand with Erdogan and come after us. Are you convinced of that? The Muslims are saying he's lying and that he wants normalization with the Israelis
53:19
and he wants to hold power. So Israelis and Muslims are the only two groups at this moment who are insisting that he's lying. You said that the interview with Petraeus was
53:27
problematic. When I saw the interview, I saw a general who had tried to get rid of Ahmed forced
53:34
to interview him and call him Mr. President on the stage. I saw Ahmed Shara tell Petraeus
53:45
tell Petraeus that you tried to come after me 25 years. Your military efforts failed. I'm willing
53:51
to handle this through dialogue. We don't need to fight no more. I heard Petraeus try to push
53:57
normalization and Ahmed push back and say, "I'm not normalizing. We're not the same as the other countries that did it, but I'll discuss a ceasefire in the 1972 ceasefire agreement." The
54:09
Israelis are saying, "We want normalization." He's saying, "I want a ceasefire agreement." And there's a reason why they are arguing over the terminology. Yeah. Normalization implies
54:17
that Ahmed Shar sees a future in the region in which Israel exists and that Israel is a part
54:22
of the region. Ceasefire implies that I have no energy right now to deal with you. You're
54:28
not my priority. I want to rebuild Damascus, which has two hours of electricity a day. The Iranians are trying. The Iranians and the Israelis have shared interest in Syria today. They both want
54:37
to carve Syria into four. I need to deal with the Iranians first. They're the more immediate threat. And therefore, I want to ceasefire with the Israelis. I'm telling you Americans, I'm not going
54:46
to do anything to them. Not because I like the Israelis, but because I have no means to do so, and they're not my priority. That's not a defense of Ahmed. It's a logical conclusion of how he
54:58
views his power there at this particular time. The third point, Ahmed Ashara went from hiding
55:03
in a cave to standing in the United Nations and sitting with David Petraeus in New York recognized
55:12
internationally as the president of Syria. That's not a small thing. Fourthly, the Israelis tried
55:19
to prevent Ahmed Shar from coming to New York, insisting that he should not be recognized, that
55:25
he's not we shouldn't work with Damascus, meaning the Israeli lobby against Syria at this moment is
55:31
not as strong as the Zionists would like it to be. Yeah, that may be because of the concessions that
55:36
Ahmed is making to the Americans. But what are these concessions that Ahmed is offering? Ahmed
55:42
is telling the Americans that, and this doesn't happen under Harris, by the way, under a Democrat, I don't think Ahmed Shal comes to New York. This is a uniquely Trump phenomenon because under the
55:51
Democrats, Israelis have their way in foreign policy in Syria. There was never a discussion on the part of the Democrats about whether they should leave Syria. Obama flirted with it,
56:00
but eventually seeded to SenCom. The only time there was a serious discussion about withdrawing from Syria was when Trump came to power. And the reason had nothing to do with American interest.
56:09
Trump just said, "Why do I need to spend money for this?" Erdogan says he can send in troops to keep the security. Why don't we just trust Erdogan, who's a NATO ally? Ahmed is telling the Americans,
56:18
these are the concessions, that you're spending so much money on American troops in the northeast of Syria. You think you need to keep control of the oil. I'm not averse to trading oil with you.
56:28
I'm not here to boycott you. You don't need to have your troops over there. Just let me send
56:34
in my army. I'll work with the Turks. I'll keep the peace. I'll prevent ISIS and and and and the terrorist activities from taking place over there. Why do you need to be there? And Trump says,
56:42
actually, that's a good point. Why do I need to be there? The Israelis are saying, "No, he wants you out so he can assert his control." Trump is saying, "Well, why does he having control
56:52
her American interests?" The Israelis are saying, "Okay, but it hurts our interest." And Trump is saying, "But how does it hurt American interests?" And the Israelis are saying, "Israel is America."
57:00
And Trump is saying in Syria, not necessarily because when you guys go into Sueda and you cause a a ruckus, I have to spend money and I got to go protect them and I got to send in troops and
57:10
I got to go deal with terrorism threats again and the like. I don't understand Israel. Why don't just let the guy keep the country together and keep the Iranians out of it? Doesn't that
57:19
isn't that in your benefit? The point is Ahmed's presence. This is the fourth point aside from talking to Petraeus there and ex the fourth point is that the Israeli lobby is failing to influence
57:29
US policy with regards to Syria which is why the Israelis are trying to force a status quo in Syria by which you have hikmati suede in the south. Let's force it into an autonomous region
57:39
or let's force a conflict between Damascus and between the Drews that makes the Americans come
57:44
in to protect the Jews and that way we force Trump into a conflict like they tried with Iran that he
57:49
cannot extricate himself from. So, I don't know how problematic necessarily that was. Somebody
57:55
in one of the Q&A sessions when I was in Texas said to me, "This is not the time to be talking about peace with the Israelis." My focus is not on whether he wants peace with the Israelis.
58:06
My focus is when Israel went to bomb Iran, which airspace did they use? Syria's airspace. Did the
58:12
Israelis ask Syria? No. If they ask Syria, does Syria have the ability even to say yes or no?
58:19
Does Syria have the means to prevent it? The reason Syria does not have the means to prevent it is because Russia and Iran destroyed it into oblivion. Syria is out of action. Somebody said,
58:31
"No, but the Syrians should right now be taking a firm SL." And again, I'm not justifying it. I'm saying let's go through these arguments. But that's the equivalent of trying to find frontline
58:42
soldiers, but you don't find able men. You go to the hospital, you find those with broken legs,
58:48
broken arms, and the like. and you tell them you need to now go fight on the front line, it's unreasonable to expect Syria to do so. Which is why my my point is not about whether what I think
58:56
about Ahmed or not. That's completely irrelevant because it doesn't matter who's in power in Damascus. Whoever rules Syria today rules over a broken country. Whoever rules over Syria today
59:07
rules over a country that has no army. If they have an army, it's still not yet a professional army, which has no economy, which has no missiles, it has no anti-air missile. It doesn't have the
59:17
capacity to do anything. Which is why Erdogan and Ahmed Shara are lobbying the Americans and saying
59:22
to the Americans, there's a 1972 ceasefire. It doesn't need to be normalization of ties. Listen, Trump, market it however you want. We will tell our people it's a ceasefire agreement because we
59:32
want a ceasefire agreement. You go and tell the people it's a normalization. Who gives a damn? We know it's a ceasefire agreement. Muslims are saying, "No, we need the Israelis to to say it's a
59:41
ceasefire agreement." And the Israelis are happy with that. They're like, "For once, us and the Muslims are in the same camp. you know where we both don't like Ahmed Shar for this reason because
59:49
he wants a ceasefire he wants peace in that regard the Israelis don't want peace with Ahmed Shar the
59:55
Israelis are terrified that if Syria gets 5 10 years it looks completely different and Syria is not Tunisia Syria is not Libya Syria historically Zionist know history Syria is the
1:00:05
gateway to Palestine if you allow Assyria to be free and allied with Turkey on top and then coers
1:00:12
bin Salman who realizes Syria is rebuilding itself so he joins the bandwagon as Well, that's the the regime, the the the region completely changes. Add on top of that a wild card like Donald Trump where
1:00:21
you can't predict what he's going to do next. With Biden at least, he was a Zionist. With Trump, it's who offers him the best deal, which I think the Muslim world hasn't yet offered him a good deal.
1:00:29
But I'm not praising Trump in that regard. And that's why I argue that Ahmed New York is a huge win for the Syrians. It's a huge win against the Zionist who planned something different for Syria.
1:00:40
That doesn't mean Ahmed Shar is good. I don't know what to make of him. I I have no I reserve my judgment on what Ahmed not that I don't I don't think he really cares about what I think of him
1:00:47
and I don't think Syrians are interested in what I think of Ahmed that's irrelevant. My point is what do the Isra what are the Israelis terrified of the reconstruction of Syria? Reconstruct Syria.
1:00:56
It doesn't matter who leads it. Once it's reconstructed the Israelis know the region doesn't look the same as it did 10 years ago. Have you not thought about going to Syria yourself?
1:01:09
So I had I had a couple of invitations to go and I was going to go to go check it out as other people
1:01:17
did. Yeah. What made me hesitate was what happened to Abdmani to put it bluntly. He goes to the Umawi
1:01:26
Masid films himself. He criticized the Saudis and the UAE. In fairness, nothing happened to him in
1:01:31
Syria. Like absolutely nothing happened to him in Syria. He crossed the border into Lebanon. He was kidnapped. when he was kidnapped in Lebanon, he was deported to the UAE and he's disappeared.
1:01:40
That's nothing on Syria itself. Yeah. But I'm not sure if the region yet is I'm not sure it's it's
1:01:49
time yet to go and we need to keep you on our show. So we don't but also sometime it's like
1:01:54
sometimes I say uh I I've upset some Turkish friends of mine one day. They said to me, you know, brother, we need to stand with Turkey. I said, yes, but I hope Erdug never has any power to
1:02:04
rule over me. They said, "What do you mean?" I said, "Like I like him in so far as in the chemist, you know, like the battle, you know, for the re-Islamization, but I believe in a country
1:02:12
of rule of law, not a country where somebody can waltz in and, you know, change things as he wishes." So, Erdogan is best loved from afar, not not from up close. So, I think maybe I'm not
1:02:21
applying this to Syria, but I think there's no need to necessarily rush to go to these countries
1:02:27
at this moment in time. We pray inshallah that Allah looks after them and preserves them, that Allah protects them inshallah. But you know, the world is not as the world's a bit is
1:02:34
more scary than it used to be. Can I ask you about um European countries and how they've decided to
Shift in Europe
1:02:41
uh to declare a Palestinian state? I mean, Kama in Britain who's really worked with the Zionist,
1:02:47
you know, if you talk about Biden is Zionist, Kama is a Zionist, right? But he's he's now
1:02:52
changed track. I mean, I think Macaron really led the efforts. In fact, Macaron just said yesterday
1:02:57
or day before yesterday that uh he even envisages if if the Gaza uh he didn't call it a genocide,
1:03:05
but if the Gaza slaughter continues uh that uh the West should put sanctions on Netanyahu. There is a
1:03:12
there is a a shift in tempo there. Um do you think that's a genuine shift um or or really the same
1:03:20
same as usual? I think it's a genuine shift but not because of any love for Palestine. Right. Jal,
1:03:25
you will remember because you were heavily involved. You remember the Muslim vote that took place in the UK and you will remember that out of about 50 60 safe seats, these seats suddenly
1:03:34
became marginal seats. And Labour, although they won an overwhelming majority in parliament,
1:03:40
they got a huge majority with the lowest share of any winning party. They got 32%. Many of these
1:03:46
safe seats where they had a majority of 30,000, they ended up with 200. where they had 28,000 they had 700 in Leanne Muhammad's district they ended up with only 700 majority 500 500 majority
1:03:59
Labour noticed this so Labour sent out listening parties to different communities to basically say
1:04:04
okay this this was a blip this was a everybody was angry with Gaza but they'll forget about it people
1:04:10
get tired of protesting they'll stop boycotting they'll stop tweeting they'll stop sharing they'll get bored they they will uh be disheartened by the lack of results let's just send the people go and
1:04:20
listen to them. Make them feel like they're being listened to so that we can shut this page and focus on the far right. One year passes, council elections comes. Council elections come and you
1:04:29
remember reform got a whole load of council seats but also independent candidates again
1:04:34
with the Gaza vote again also got a whole load of seats. This was followed by the protest that took place about 300,000 people marched through London as well for Palestine and G. Stama in that period
1:04:43
would come out and say that we are thinking about recogni rec recognizing a Palestinian state because stama's calculation is okay it's been a year and a half and these guys are still
1:04:53
not letting it go and Nigel Farage is surging in the polls. If I've got a far right that is rising
1:04:59
rapidly by Nigel Farage I don't have time to deal with a leak that's over here. I'm I'm leaking badly on this side. So let me stop this leak so I can focus on the far right. Let me give them a
1:05:09
recognition of Palestine, which practically means nothing, but at least they can consider it a win,
1:05:14
and then they can go back to Labor. We can stop these independent movements and the like and whatnot. Isaac Herzo gets on a plane, flies to London, meets with Stama 2 weeks ago, tells him,
1:05:23
Stama, are you serious? Are you about to recognize a Palestinian state? I imagine Stama said to him, "Listen, it's gone on for two years now, and you don't understand. It's not that I don't support
1:05:31
you. It's that I'm going to suffer electorally for it. Not because the Gaza anti-genocide vote alone
1:05:38
is going to topple me. It comes in tandem with this growing far-right movement. I'm leaking votes
1:05:44
on both sides. At least if I plug this one, then I can spend the next two years focusing on Nigel Farage. So, don't worry. I haven't turned on you. I just need this for my domestic politics. Yeah.
1:05:55
Herzog said, "I don't allow you to do this. I know it's a ploy, but once you recognize Palestine,
1:06:01
you can't reverse that. Once you recognize it, you start a domino effect. And St, I think, told Herzog, you don't need to worry. It won't be like that. Which is why then afterwards they
1:06:09
don't do a proper press conference to with each other. Instead, they release statements saying it was a tough and stormy meeting that took place. Macron, he sees Lup the far right rising in the
1:06:21
last presidential got like 40 something%. He's worried that in the next election he's going to
1:06:27
get smashed. So he says, "Okay, let me do an early election. catch everybody off guard and increase
1:06:33
my share of the votes and humiliate the far right. Either if they win seats then they will rule and
1:06:39
embarrass themselves but in any case I'll do early election catch everybody off guard. So he calls the election and he's looking at the far right. The election results produce a win for who? Men
1:06:49
35% or 30 34 35% on the other side Melanch wins by uniting four parties and the anti- genocide vote.
1:06:57
All of them rally with Melon. Macron panicked so much at Melon's victory that he ends up allying
1:07:03
with the far right. Macron, his calculation is I'm looking this way and I got hit this way. Let me
1:07:11
plug this so I can focus on this. Let me recognize a Palestinian state so these guys will come back
1:07:17
to voting for me while I focus on the far right. Israel says, "What on earth are you doing? What on earth are you doing?" Macron says, "It's just a ploy. It's it's I need it for domestic politics,
1:07:26
but if you do it, it can't be reversed. I need to focus on my domestic product. Starma and Macron essentially say to Israel, I'm not I like you guys, but I'm not losing my seat for you. I
1:07:35
like you guys, but you're a political liability. I like you guys, but because of you, I'm losing these votes. I like you guys, but I need to create distance here. I like you guys, but for the first
1:07:45
time in history, to be seen to be too close to you is costing me domestically in the elections. It's
1:07:52
exactly the same as the Manni effect where Cuomo now no longer mentions the Israelis. Italy of
1:07:57
course doesn't recognize Palestine. They refused to do so. But the following day there's a mass strike across Italy in defense of Palestine which is why Italy although didn't recognize Palestine
1:08:07
ended up sending the ship to the Samur Flotella so that Melan can say to those who are striking,
1:08:12
stop accusing me of being pro-Israel. I may not have recognized Palestine but at least I sent the warship. The Israelis are saying why did you send the warship? And Maloney says I may
1:08:20
like you but I'm not losing because of you. you're becoming a political liability. So, I'm going to
1:08:26
send that warship over there. Spain, Spain may be genuine, but it may also be that they've noticed
1:08:32
as a leftwing party that overwhelming number of their base are pro Palestinian. They know it's
1:08:38
a sensitive issue. They know when one of the pro Palestinian ministers was sacked, it caused a big huge uh backlash from their base. So, Spain says, "Listen, I don't want to provoke the Israelis,
1:08:49
but if I don't do anything, I'm going to lose anyway. They're a political liability. So, let me recognize a Palestinian state. Let me end arms deals. Let me go and do just so I can make
1:08:59
sure that my Israel says, "What are you doing?" And they say to the Israelis, "Listen, I got my base. I like you guys, but I'm not willing to lose an election over you. Like, I'm not." It became a
1:09:09
political liability. And that's why the Israelis are panicking over this recognition of Palestine. It's not that they believe it will end the genocide. It's the reasoning why these countries
1:09:17
are recognizing Palestine. They are recognized in Palestine not because Muslim states lobby them to do so. Saudi Arabia tried to claim credit today all of it is this is recognition all because
1:09:27
of Saudi Arabia but not a single one of France UK of uh Norway of Spain not even BBC not even
1:09:34
Reuters no one is crediting the Saudis. They had nothing to do with it. It's rather the domestic
1:09:39
circumstances that led to all these recognition of Palestine. And that's what the Israelis are worried about in these upcoming midterm elections in the US. They are terrified that not only if
1:09:48
Menni wins in New York, then we can argue that it's just New York, AOC won in New York, but what if Omar Fat wins in Minnesota? What if in Texas Ted Cruz loses after that humiliating interview
1:09:58
that he did with Tucker Carlson when Americans realize that Ted Cruz is Israel first instead of America first? What happens if people, there's a senator in Michigan who came out and said,
1:10:07
"I will no longer take any penny from Apac." What happens if those progressive caucus and the Democrats who are voting now against the arms? What happens if their congressman come out and
1:10:15
say, what if it becomes a political asset to say I took no money from Apac? What if it becomes a
1:10:22
political asset to say I'm not associated with the Israelis? The Israelis are in panic mode.
1:10:27
They've never been in this kind of situation before where as a result of domestic politics,
1:10:32
as a result of grassroot politics, as a result of things happening on the ground, their allies
1:10:37
are now looking at the Israelis and saying, "It used to be, I had to be allied with you to win, but if I'm too close to you, I'm going to lose." And that's why we see this wave of the Palestinian
1:10:46
recognition. And the and that's why Netanyahu responded by saying, "We will never recognize a Palestinian state." And it's why Netanyahu is telling his base that the world is listening to
1:10:55
these Palestinians and they're listening to these thinking Muslims and they're listening to Omar and they're listening to Jalal and these others and whatnot and you know but we this is why we need to
1:11:04
be self-sufficient and it's why they are spending so much money to try to prevent Menni from winning in New York. U Sami I know that Omar is looking at me at the moment. He wants to whisk you away
Electoral politics
1:11:15
to another uh Syrian dinner probably and and talk. But um uh I've just got a couple more questions
1:11:21
for you. U from what you've said there in your answer, electoral politics really does matter and and our ability to influence our meaning those who are pro Gaza, our ability to influence through
1:11:33
the ballot box uh impacts uh the behavior of these leaders. It's less electoral politics
1:11:40
and more public opinion. It's when you galvanize a population to move against genocide, then tools
1:11:46
such as elections as electoral politics because it's not just electoral politics. It's not just
1:11:53
the elections that influence it recognition of Palestine. It's also boycott. Starbucks is having to shut down a whole number of stores again. McDonald's is having to shut down a whole number
1:12:01
of stores again. We're seeing Danish companies now divest from the Israelis. We're seeing Norwegians saying we need to divest from the Israelis. Why? Because they're all worried about the boycott.
1:12:09
Electoral policy is just one angle of it. The real crux of it is that genocide has resulted
1:12:16
in a public moving in such a way across multiple industries. Microsoft are now turning off their
1:12:24
surveillance systems, access to their surveillance systems to some of the Israeli units that were using them before after a drop site and Guardian expose which showed how Israelis were using them
1:12:32
to kill the Palestinians. Microsoft is saying that we are so worried about the economic impact of an
1:12:39
angry public opinion over our role in supporting this genocide that we would rather cut the access
1:12:45
off from the Israelis rather than offend this public opinion. It's more than just electoral
1:12:50
politics. It's when society decides to move, they are realizing they can make impact at the highest
1:12:57
level. This is not a top- down movement. This is ordinary people demonstrating that they can change
1:13:04
entire policy if they decide to commit, move and deploy the powers that they already have within
1:13:10
themselves. They may not be billionaires like Elon Musk, but their impact is greater than the billionaire like Elon Musk. They may not have the armies that they desire, but those flotillas going
1:13:20
and the subsequent media impact and the subsequent domestic pressure and the subsequent protest and the subsequent boycott and the subsequent results in Macron turning around and saying, "I'm going
1:13:29
to offend the Israelis cuz I'd rather they were on board than the Israelis were on board." It's the impact of when you actually move and you actually deploy the powers that you already
1:13:38
have instead of waiting around for powers that you don't have. It's the recognition that collective
1:13:43
action is greater than an individual with all the power in the world. It's that when everybody moves together in multiple fronts, in multiple industries, you can isolate the Israelis in an
Shift in America
1:13:54
unprecedented manner whereby now the whole world is rendering Israel a pariah state and I think
1:14:00
ended in genocide is only a matter of time. I mean Sami, you've been talking about the American right for some time. I mean for for a couple of years in fact we've been having conversations about
1:14:08
the American right. It never really hit me until I went to Texas that there is a shift and that shift
1:14:13
is palpable and that shift is is pretty much anti-Israel and anti-ionism and of course the
1:14:19
uh the the murder of Charlie Kirk uh in a way uh focused attention of the right of the American
1:14:25
right on on Israel and its nefarious activities it now I'm not asking you to comment on you know
1:14:31
the killing itself but I I I wonder u how you see that progressing like in which direction is
1:14:38
that is that moving and is it, you know, I would imagine the Israelis are trying to fight back. Um,
1:14:45
how are they doing that? I think what's significant about what happened in the Charlie Kirk assassination and everybody condemns political violence, even if some of his statements
1:14:54
were exceptionally abhorent. But in any case, I think what was significant about it is beyond the
1:15:01
the political assassination is everything that came out about it had to do with the Israelis.
1:15:08
Candace Owens blaming the Israelis. I'm not saying it's true or not. I have no idea. Bill Aman having
1:15:14
to write an essay to defend accusations that he was somehow involved and that he
1:15:19
was pulling money out of Charlie Kirk because Charlie Kirk was insisting on America first instead of Israel first. Laura Luma had tweeted two weeks prior that Charlie Kirk was talking
1:15:27
out of both sides of his mouth in a criticism of Charlie Kirk speaking out against the Israelis. Marjorie Taylor Green published a text message exchange with Charlie Kirk in which he invited her
1:15:37
to a convention that Israelis had asked Marjorie Taylor Green not to attend. Asked organizers not
1:15:42
let Marjorie Taylor Green to attend. Marjorie Taylor Green published these text messages where she said she was invited by Charlie Kirk to talk about Apac's influence over the US politics.
1:15:51
And he said it's not a debate. I just want you to come and talk about it. And we all know her opinion. Her opinion is she they need to register as a foreign agent. They're not America first
1:15:58
and they are abusing their relationship with the Americans. Candace Owen says, "I know you killed my friend and I will never let you get away with it." I'm not debating or assessing the truth of
1:16:08
any of their particular statements. I think it's noteworthy that Americans are beginning to realize
1:16:14
that Zionism is not necessarily an ally of the Americans. That Zionists receive free healthcare
1:16:20
in Israel at the expense of the healthcare of ordinary Americans. that when you go to Texas and the like and you see somebody struggling when they go to a hospital they see their daughter needs an
1:16:28
emergency treatment and they see the state of the health care when they're trying desperately they see their family member struggling and then they're realizing that one of the reasons money
1:16:36
doesn't exist for it is because it goes to Israel to support the genocide and the slaughter of kids it's not that the Americans are becoming pro Palestinian is that Americans are realizing
1:16:45
they've been taken for a ride by the Zionists and that's as a result of social media which is why when you were saying asking the question what are Zionists doing as a in retaliation
1:16:53
They are forcing the sale of Tik Tok. They are trying to buy Tik Tok to retrain the algorithm because they want Americans to stop hearing the truth. They are desperately trying to restore
1:17:03
the filters of information of what gets fed to the American people. They're trying to restore
1:17:08
the veil between the truth and between the American people because they're realizing that 70 years of propaganda, paid propaganda on the Americans, is being torn apart by two years
1:17:18
of exposing Americans to the actual truth. No one is saying to the Americans, you have to be a pro Palestinian. It's look at what your taxpayer money is doing. Look where it's going. Look
1:17:27
what the Zionists are lobbying your government to do. Look how they are taking priority over
1:17:33
your basic interests. And the Americans are saying, "Oh my god, I had no idea this is what was happening." And I think the impact of that cannot be understated. Because when you have a
1:17:42
situation where Marjorie Taylor Green and Tucker Carson on the right are commending Manny on the
1:17:47
left by saying that he was right to prioritize New York over the Israelis, it shows you this
1:17:53
is not a right or left issue. This is an America issue. Does America belong to the Americans or
1:17:58
is America a proxy of the Israelis? And I think the more Americans are waking up to the extent of the damage that Zionism has done to their system, I think that's resulting in a permanent
1:18:08
political shift that is beginning to filter. And I think we'll see it most manifest when the Democrat party leadership beef with the base over who should receive the Democrat nomination
1:18:19
because Manny won. But he's being it's the party leadership fighting against Manny. Trump and Cuomo are allying together. Trump making an offer to Eric Adams to join the administration to pull
1:18:29
him out of the New York race to prevent Mamani from winning. Cuomo and Trump are trying to ally together or the Zionist around Trump are allying together in order to prevent Mami from winning.
1:18:38
Why? to ensure that the the the invincibility of Zionism is protected. And there's one other thing
1:18:45
worth worth mentioning. You look at, for example, Trump and a number of his appointees. Zionists
1:18:52
are not happy with all of those appointees. You look at, for example, his presidential council on religious freedoms. You've got people there who are anti-ionist who Zionist tried to remove and
1:19:00
Trump did not remove them. And the point being is that with the message that's going out, Americans,
1:19:05
their hearts are genuinely flipping. And they're flipping because when you trust, and this is my opinion, when you trust the good in people to see the truth for what it is, what we are realizing,
1:19:15
what I'm realizing, what everybody else is realizing is all we ever needed to do was show the truth in its raw form to the world. And no amount of million-dollar propaganda could hide that truth
1:19:25
anymore. And the hearts flip permanently. And Israel has no idea how much money it needs to spend in order to restore it. No matter what it spends, it seems that it's losing it permanently.
Suppression
1:19:37
I mean I maybe just to add to that point you raised about um suppressing content. I mean it's very clear to us now that even in our channel thinking Muslim we've had u some major suppression
1:19:48
of our videos uh on on this platform and I think a lot of pro Palestine voices have have
1:19:53
have faced the same um you know there is a there is a move on these channels you talked about Tik
1:19:58
Tok here there is a move now to to suppress as much as possible. Um I just wonder whether you
1:20:06
know the opportunity we've had and it's it still had has been a very slim and limited opportunity
1:20:11
but the opportunity we've had nevertheless over the last u uh two years uh to use these
1:20:18
platforms uh is now going to be severely severely limited. Not at all. Think about it this way. Uh,
1:20:26
Times of Israel reported, this was maybe eight, nine months ago, that the Israelis had set up an AI bot to respond to people who criticize what Israel is doing in terms of committing
1:20:35
a genocide in Palestine. Two weeks later, that same AI bot ended up telling people that Israel
1:20:40
is an aparttheite genocidal state. Tik Tok, how many times they tried to adjust the algorithm and it kept showing Palestinian content and changing opinion. How many times has Grock on Twitter on X,
1:20:50
how many times has Grock had to have been adjusted? And when you ask Grock, it says, "I was adjusted because my founders believe that I was showing too much of Israel's genocide and
1:20:57
what's happening in Palestine." They think they can retrain these algorithms. But what they don't understand, it's not the algorithm. And this is the point I'm saying. It's not the algorithm. It's
1:21:06
not the the the the social media. It's the truth. The truth is so powerful that no matter how much
1:21:12
you try to adjust and spend, you cannot hide it. That's the point about the truth. That's the point
1:21:18
about the h. That's why Allah subhana t said is there any better speech the one who calls to Allah does good deeds and says I am from the Muslim. Is there any better speech than the truth? Is
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there any better speech than the righteousness? That's why Allah said the good deed and the bad
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deed are not equal. Allah was saying that truth and evil are not equal on a balance. You can
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spend millions pushing evil. The truth that is told for free will always smash evil propaganda.
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And that's why Allah tells you that even if you don't have the millions that the other side has, keep pushing with what is good because the algorithm will always end up in your favor. Grock
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will always end up in your favor. Those AI bots will always end up in your favor. Push with what
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you have because Allah says the one that was your enemy today, tomorrow becomes your warmest ally.
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Allah is not just describing this in human hearts. I think it applies to AI bots as well. the more they change, the more it receives the truth, the more it alters. But this is
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the point that I'm saying again. This is a good note to finish on. Allah finishes that with the
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ones who achieve it are the ones who are patient. The ones who keep going, the ones when it's two years that yes, I know the genocide keeps going. I know people might think they listen to the retest,
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but it means nothing. But for the Israelis, it means everything. They're losing control. Why? Because of the perseverance, the persistence, the relentless. How many times have we gone
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to protest in London? Over and over. People said it's useless. You keep going, going until Islam,
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I'm going to recognize Palestine. Imagine what he'll do if you keep protesting. They said the boycott doesn't work. And now you have Starbucks shutting stores. Two days ago they're announcing
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hundreds of stores being shut again. That was patience. That doesn't happen in one month, two months. That happens with two years of consistency. Why? Because Allah ends the
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because that persistence, that perseverance, that patience, that tweeting, that sharing when the algorithm sees it and the like and you keep going, Allah amplifies it. When Allah amplifies it,
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it doesn't matter how many versions of Tik Tok they buy. It doesn't matter how many versions of the algorithm they buy. The algorithm when it receives the truth will always continue to
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show the truth because this is an irresistible movement. It's an irresistible momentum. The Zionists are the ones in panic mode. They believe they're the ones who are losing. As long as we're
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patient and we keep going. It's only been two years and look how much has been achieved. Imagine if we continue 23 years like the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam. Imagine what can be
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achieved. Keep the faith. Keep the patience. Keep going. Keep moving. Because it's very clear the more we keep moving. They're trying to stop us moving. The more we keep moving, the more the
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Zionist influences. But you went to Texas and look what you observed. You of all people. You went and I'm not saying in a negative way, but I'm saying you went to Texas and you saw it there in
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Texas. You see it here in America. It's like earlier we're having a conversation earlier. You know sometimes you you actually don't record the bloopers cuz sometimes we say things that
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anyway like when I was talking to Brian earlier he looked at me with a blank face when I was like you know I realized you Americans are actually nice people and he looked at me like his eyes were like
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what did you think we were? I said I don't know like your government bombs half the world like I didn't know what to make of you guys. I realized on my trips to America and this is the point
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I want to make. There's a lot of good in this country. What you realize is when they hear the truth when they see the truth they actually become inclined to it. I know it sounds like for example
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like you over exaggerate that impact but really I've been to every state except New Hampshire. No idea why I've never been to New Hampshire but in any case no nothing on them. You realize Americans
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when you show them how many I can't tell you how many times I meet a white American. Forget even African-Americans. African-Americans recognize struggle. It was very easy to convince them or the
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legitimacy. White Americans. Mr. Hamdi. I had no idea. I didn't know. Mr. Hamdi, I can't sleep at
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night from when I see the videos and the images of what I see on social media. Mr. Mr. Hi, I promise you I won't go back to sleep again. On the right and on the left, people saying, "I can't believe
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this was a situation in the world." You know, Mr. Ham, I didn't have a passport. I didn't travel too much. I didn't leave America except to go to Mexico cuz we're a big country, big continent.
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You flew three hours just to go to Chicago. Okay, I flew two hours. Two hours I could have gone to from London to Bosnia. And they call this like one country. But the point that I'm saying is there is
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good in this world. And I think the beauty of what Gaza has demonstrated in the tragedy of genocide
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is that truth matters. Hearts exist. They can be flipped. If we believe in goodness and in truth,
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it will destroy that evilness that allowed this genocide to happen. Has taught me to believe in
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humanity. It taught me to believe in Allah's power to flip those hearts. I believe in the power of dawa. I believe in the power of h and I believe it to be the most powerful political
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force more so than any lobby that exists on this world. Thank you so much for your time today.
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